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Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#231

Post by mrkeen »

ActorNightly wrote: post #221
cavoirom wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use MacBook anyway, this project brings open platform to my MacBook, I'm happy with that. I guess many people have the same situation like me. I don't use other laptop because their hardwares aren't comparable to MacBook.

>I don't use other laptop because their hardwares aren't comparable to MacBook. Yes, because being non repairable, being non upgradable, having early thermal throttling due to subar cooling, and having a mediocre keyboard is SO much better than anything else that is out there. I swear, the blatant lies that come out of supposed Mac fans on HN is almost like Apple is astroturfing this forum with shill accounts. Whats…

Sure, but I eat all these downsides and more, just for the battery life.

I was a (mostly) happy Asahi Fedora user for a while, but eventually went back to macos (for the battery life). I'm not sure how much better it is, but I actually trust that it will sleep and wake properly when I use its lid.

The prices and ram have been fucked though, long before the latest ram crisis. I have a macbook m1 air, which I bought second hand. I'm looking at maybe upgrading to a second hand m3 or m4 air (with more ram), but honestly the prices are just wrong. Whatever I buy will be too expensive and unable to run decent llm models.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#232

Post by rowanG077 »

shvarr wrote: post #222
rowanG077 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's simply not true. I have been daily driving asahi for 2.5 years or so now on an M2 Max macbook. In it's been one of the most reliable and smooth experiences I have had ever using linux. DP alt made is working fine for me. I'm not sure about battery, I never measured.

If we overlook battery life and DP alt mode being funky, crucial for laptop use, it becomes essentially a desktop tethered to the desk. Do you actually use dp alt mode and not HDMI for external displays? What DE/WM are you using your mac with?

I use DP alt mode and also the HDMI port to drive two screens. I use hyprland and runs fine after configuration.

My battery certainly last a few hours. I use it as any other laptop I had before and use it daily on trains. So I cannot at all agree with your POV that it's a desktop. The battery is working without problems.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#233

Post by GTP »

sneak wrote: post #219
GTP wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should they when they have macOS already? Because Apple cuts support for old MacBooks eventually, even if the hardware still works perfectly. See also my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48745199

That’s not a sales tactic. Apple supports their old hardware with updates longer than anyone in the industry. The recent ones have been due to the architecture transition, maintaining BC with amd64 has significant costs.

This is what I assumed as well, but online I found people who were able to update a ~2015 MacBook Pro to a version of macOS more recent than the latest supported one, and it still worked.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#234

Post by zbentley »

GeekyBear wrote: post #210
zbentley wrote: post #206

> The firmware loaded by XNU is not verified by the CM3. It will begin executing from its reset vector when signalled, no matter what is actually there. What if we just… used our own firmware? Without taking away from the unutterably awesome achievement of writing custom firmware against a proprietary moving target, I worry about this one specifically. While Apple will hopefully continue the practice of not going out…

The firmware blobs (and the system files) for MacOS live on a read only partition that is digitally signed.

Then how was the Asahi team able to load their own firmware? I was concerned about that process--whatever it is--being something apple might lock down. If it's already likely locked down to Apple's satisfaction, that's good news.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#235

Post by jorvi »

Grombobulous wrote: post #174
Klonoar wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In three comments you’ve moved the goalpost on the 20-hours-of-battery comment multiple times. Just take the L, dude.

If you can point out where my goalposts moved I’d be happy to entertain the idea, but I’m not seeing it. To clarify for you, “moving the goalposts” means that I changed my definitions over time. You’ll notice that in my comments I never changed my definition of what it means to have good battery life. I know sometimes turns of phrase are easy to misuse so I hope that helps you out. There’s no winner or loser here. We…

Panther Lake is impressive for x86, but decidedly middling when stacked up against a field including ARM.

The problem is that x86 can (almost) match ARM battery life but at much worse performance, or match the performance at much worse battery life. That's what the statistics don't show you when they show either max performance or max battery life tests.

I repeat it rather often on this site but it's because they're such impressive numbers: an M1 Ultra gets 70% of the performance of an RTX 3090 at 25% of the power envelope, and it beats out a desktop class Core i9 from that era at 30% of the power envelope.

Nvidia, Intel and AMD would commit murder for those kind of perf per watt numbers.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#236

Post by bigyabai »

tacon wrote: post #192
bigyabai wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the problems aren't cracked whatsoever. For instance, Apple Silicon's PSCI power management interface is a mystery. PSCI code exists in other Linux devicetrees, but nobody knows how Apple implements theirs. So for the better half of a decade, Asahi users have relied on a hack to prevent their battery from draining constantly. We still don't have any prospective solutions, to my knowledge. This is the weal-and…

Is this something like Fable can help with?

This is something that documentation would help with. Fable doesn't know anything that human engineers don't.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#237

Post by bigyabai »

spider-mario wrote: post #227
ActorNightly wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't use other laptop because their hardwares aren't comparable to MacBook. Yes, because being non repairable, being non upgradable, having early thermal throttling due to subar cooling, and having a mediocre keyboard is SO much better than anything else that is out there. I swear, the blatant lies that come out of supposed Mac fans on HN is almost like Apple is astroturfing this forum with shill accounts. Whats…

> I swear, the blatant lies that come out of supposed Mac fans on HN is almost like Apple is astroturfing this forum with shill accounts. How ironic. There is no “blatant lie” in “their hardwares aren’t comparable to MacBook” if you don’t know what aspects they are comparing, but there are in your comment.

The hardware isn't identical to a Mac, but that's because of copyright.

You can absolutely compare various chips and laptops to a Mac and end up with a fair comparison.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#238

Post by bigyabai »

AKSF_Ackermann wrote: post #223
ActorNightly wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't use other laptop because their hardwares aren't comparable to MacBook. Yes, because being non repairable, being non upgradable, having early thermal throttling due to subar cooling, and having a mediocre keyboard is SO much better than anything else that is out there. I swear, the blatant lies that come out of supposed Mac fans on HN is almost like Apple is astroturfing this forum with shill accounts. Whats…

Late intel macs are in fact crimes against thermal design, but this is no longer a problem on most M-based ones (except the 14-inch M4 max, that one does throttle.). The keyboard is also no longer e-waste tier. The rest is true, but you may wish to update your talking points.

> but this is no longer a problem on most M-based ones

It definitely is. Apple's mistake with the Intel Macs was refusing to throttle the chips before they hit their T junction temp (~95c). This is why a lot of Wintel machines will max out around 70-80c in sustained load while Macs will fly past those temps.

The same behavior is present in both Intel Macs and Apple Silicon chips - you can very nearly boil water on your Macbook if you push the GPU with sustained load like LLM prefill.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#239

Post by brewmarche »

VeejayRampay wrote: post #224
brewmarche wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC Apple actually helped with MacPorts in the beginning

but have they integrated homebrew, have they made it a first class citizen, have they provided money or something? the answer is "maybe to some small extent, but not really"

MacPorts is still around and is a perfectly viable package manager, I prefer it over homebrew

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#240

Post by spider-mario »

bigyabai wrote: post #237
spider-mario wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I swear, the blatant lies that come out of supposed Mac fans on HN is almost like Apple is astroturfing this forum with shill accounts. How ironic. There is no “blatant lie” in “their hardwares aren’t comparable to MacBook” if you don’t know what aspects they are comparing, but there are in your comment.

The hardware isn't identical to a Mac, but that's because of copyright. You can absolutely compare various chips and laptops to a Mac and end up with a fair comparison.

Are you aware that “it’s not comparable to” / “it doesn’t compare to” doesn’t literally mean that it’s strictly impossible to attempt a comparison? It means that the comparison is not favourable.
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