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Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

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Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#231

Post by greenavocado »

apitman wrote: post #214
odiroot wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am extremely happy with ohmypi, but you could use OpenCode or just keep using Claude Code! What's the benefit of using OMP over OpenCode? Just the sheer amount of options in OMP overwhelmed me. But I also use both via ACP in Zed so the CLI itself doesn't matter much.

OMP is a fork of Pi[0], which is my preferred harness. Feels solid and minimal. I don't even use any extensions, skills, or modifications. Usually don't even use an AGENTS.md. Just create a small spec.md and/or plan.md for most experiments. [0]: https://pi.dev/

Almost exactly the same here but I maintain a large committed design.md and a never committed plan.md

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#232

Post by greenavocado »

yababa_y wrote: post #5
yanis_t wrote: post #2

I was wondering how does Anthropic and likes keep competitive when Opus is ($5 / $25) 5x times more expensive compared to Kimi K2.6 ($0.7 / $3.4) or other Chinese models, while being only marginally better. My theory is that US enterprise just can't send data to Chinese and that's understandable, but is that "the moat"?

I want Opus to be only marginally better, but I do mostly research engineering and its ability to not fuck up my projects is absent. Every time my credits lapse I let kimi and composer2.5 have some play and it’s basically just an excuse for me to keep playing computer because when the oai/ant credits refresh I always need to spend hours recovering from the other models either misconceptions or boneheaded eng practice…

You have to revert to Opus 4.5 and 4.6. I bet you'll see a massive improvement based on what you're describing

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#233

Post by Natfan »

WarmWash wrote: post #168
slopinthebag wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if that's the bar then the state owns everything in America as well. After all, you don't really own your land if the state can regulate what you do on it, what it can be used for, what you can build on it, and can take it away if they really need it. The state owns the land, the money supply, and regularly restricts and instructs businesses to take or desist from actions. As such, the state owns everything i…

In the US you can take the state to court and win...

for now

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#235

Post by pcwelder »

Bolwin wrote: post #151
pcwelder wrote: post #90

Great! Finally follows custom tool call format (k2.6 couldn't). It's a good indicator of instructions following and agentic behaviour. UIs it's generating is pretty good, not without problems, but certainly better than other models at this price point.

What do you mean by custom format? Non-json?

Could be json or non json. Instead of using tools in API, you ask model to share structured output in text. You parse the string to get the JSON. Gives much more control over things you can do.

For example model shares

London

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#236

Post by SubiculumCode »

threethirtytwo wrote: post #223
SubiculumCode wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is the same is not a serious argument because they are not the same.

They are different and yet the same. The biggest difference is there’s generally more hatred for China because many us citizens are jealous. But corporate corruption is not that different in safety. Other than hatred the difference lies in incentives. Corporations want profit. China just wants to spy.

That is a.limitee understanding of China's ambitions here.

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#237

Post by FooBarWidget »

WarmWash wrote: post #167
FooBarWidget wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The burden of evidence is on the accuser.

Its akin to the accusation that the UK is a parliamentary system...

I, too, can claim that "the spaghetti monster exists" is in the same ballpark as "UK is a parliamentary system".

Let's take a look at a related field: the accusation that Chinese car makers are subsidized/funded by "the CCP". It just so happens that the CF40 research forum recently published a study that shows there the money actually comes from, by analyzing the companies' financial reports. https://www.pekingnology.com/p/oecds-subsidy-centric-narrati... Turns out that they most rely on equity financing or alternative forms of financing (like delayed repayment to suppliers). They don't even make that much use of cheap credit from state banks.

More counter evidence: a new study based on 3+ years of fieldwork, 60+ interviews (with officials, entrepreneurs, and engineers), and rich first-hand accounts, shows that Chinese EV makers rose despite central government's efforts, not because of them. The central govt favored state-owned enterprises. Private firms had trouble getting state funding and even licenses. For example Geely operated illegally for years. But private industry and local mayors teamed up and created an alternative system. They then grew to a point where Beijing was like "ok you guys are obviously doing better, so we will not make a fuss about this and just legalize you".

https://x.com/i/status/2064717100229464188

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/741394

This is in complete contrast to the usual western tropes that state that everything in China is tightly controlled by Xi or by the central govt. In fact, the central govt's merit is in being lenient to deviance and operating based on results rather than amount of control. The opposite of the "totalitarian" trope. All the while western pundits would predict something like "Xi has a huge ego and will never tolerate the humiliation that his plans are imperfect" or something like that.

So no, "of course everything is CCP funded and CCP controlled" is not a given, nor in the same league as "UK is a parliamentary system". If they got the car maker situation so, so wrong, then what else is wrong?

If you want to win against China, isn't your first step to properly understand who they are and how they operate, rather than doubling down on your imagination of who they might be? Know your enemy and all that (not saying that I agree with seeing them as an enemy, but if you do, then you sure are doing yourself a disservice)

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#238

Post by WarmWash »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #237
WarmWash wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its akin to the accusation that the UK is a parliamentary system...

I, too, can claim that "the spaghetti monster exists" is in the same ballpark as "UK is a parliamentary system". Let's take a look at a related field: the accusation that Chinese car makers are subsidized/funded by "the CCP". It just so happens that the CF40 research forum recently published a study that shows there the money actually comes from, by analyzing the companies' financial reports. https://www.pekingnology…

Letting someone do something is different than being unable to stop someone from doing something. Your response even implicitly acknowledges this, but then you seem to miss it.

Its very naive to mistake leniency in Xi's playground with constitutionally protected freedoms. CCP "free enterprise" is just mock free enterprise. Like a teacher letting the kids have fun with the classroom business sim, the teacher is still in God mode, and can still intervene in any way at any point to do whatever they want.

All of China hinges on the whims of one guy. Nothing stops him from deciding that all that private money is actually state money, or that Geely's president needs "time away".

That is why it is all "CCP money and CCP controlled". Don't confuse leniency with autonomy.

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#239

Post by pocketarc »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #185
WalterGR wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they asked you to 'advertise' them basically. To be clear, the “advertising” clause just requires you to disclose that you use the thing somewhere in the product, such as credits in an “About” section.

I all it advertising clause, because I remember still in the 2000s seeing an Apple ad which at the end of it showed "Unix" or something like that on it, and I remembered that was one of the BSD license requirements, or maybe Apple just did it also just to proudly boast using Unix.

They were definitely proudly boasting being a certified UNIX OS (and macOS still is), it goes deeper than just software licenses: https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/

Re: Kimi K2.7-Code: open-source coding model with better token efficiency

#240

Post by FooBarWidget »

WarmWash wrote: post #238
FooBarWidget wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, too, can claim that "the spaghetti monster exists" is in the same ballpark as "UK is a parliamentary system". Let's take a look at a related field: the accusation that Chinese car makers are subsidized/funded by "the CCP". It just so happens that the CF40 research forum recently published a study that shows there the money actually comes from, by analyzing the companies' financial reports. https://www.pekingnology…

Letting someone do something is different than being unable to stop someone from doing something. Your response even implicitly acknowledges this, but then you seem to miss it. Its very naive to mistake leniency in Xi's playground with constitutionally protected freedoms. CCP "free enterprise" is just mock free enterprise. Like a teacher letting the kids have fun with the classroom business sim, the teacher is still…

And yet here we are with the US banning anything at will under the guise of national security. I'm not even discussing whether the national security label is legitimate, or whether your "everything is CCP-controlled" framing is legitimate. But you gotta be consistent and also adopt the position that US companies are "US state controlled", and consistently refer to them as such.

Also, I am pretty confused about your larger point. What exactly are you saying? Is it some variant of "only states with constitutionally protected freedoms are good, everything else is evil"? If that's your position, then where do you put the fact that the US bombs foreign countries at will? And that many western countries sponsor the killing of children in Gaza while arresting people who protest against it? We've seen that western democratic countries, and let's assume they're properly democratic domestically (disputed by their own populations, see Democracy Perception Index, but I digress), can be ruthlessly... let's call it "undemocratic"... abroad. Or the fact that ICE and US police officers detain/kill innocent people and are super abusive. This doesn't neatly fit into the simple "free states good unfree states bad" view. So what is your position in the larger context?

You also completely ignore the part where I said properly understanding China is important in order to defeat it. Do you... not wish to defeat China? Are you contend with merely stating that China is bad? Do you not support moving/developing more manufacturing to the west/US? If you want the latter to succeed, don't you need to have a super good understanding of what makes Chinese industrial policy and development successful? Or are you really contend with merely moralizing?

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