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OpenRouter raises $113M Series B

openrouter.ai

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Re: OpenRouter raises $113M Series B

#231

Post by CMay »

numlocked wrote: post #141

Hi HN! OpenRouter co-founder and COO here. Lots of questions about why we raised! First off: We remain founder-led and founder-controlled, and intend on being here for a long time, creating awesome products for builders all over the world. We are basically a bunch of tinkerers who like building things, and try to make stuff that we would like, when building with AI. Since this is about the raise though, happy to shar…

The Openrouter website says that y'all do not train on the data, but it does not make it clear that the data is not shared with any 3rd parties (other than the LLM provider) who might train on it.

There is the example of Apple and Google providing transport for push notifications, but claiming to delete the content and only preserve the metadata.

What is Openrouter's policy on this? Is the logging of user data an essential part of the business model, or is the primary business model really facilitating a proxy between multiple services and nothing beyond that? If everything is logged, do y'all store it securely so that if one database is stolen (by China for example) then it's not useful on its own?

With the race for AGI and everyone training on each other's outputs, Openrouter is clearly in a position to abuse all of that even though the major providers weaken their output to limit the value of distilling them.

Re: OpenRouter raises $113M Series B

#232

Post by numlocked »

jampekka wrote: post #164
numlocked wrote: post #141

Hi HN! OpenRouter co-founder and COO here. Lots of questions about why we raised! First off: We remain founder-led and founder-controlled, and intend on being here for a long time, creating awesome products for builders all over the world. We are basically a bunch of tinkerers who like building things, and try to make stuff that we would like, when building with AI. Since this is about the raise though, happy to shar…

Would it be possible to get "raw" access to the provider APIs, but still keep the consolidated billing? The unified API is great when it works, but it often causes hassle with more exotic use cases and new API features.

Interesting. Will look into it! We are releasing pass through API params soon which might hit the bid, but is a bit different than what you are describing.

Re: OpenRouter raises $113M Series B

#233

Post by michaelbuckbee »

simonw wrote: post #6

It took me quite a while to come round to OpenRouter. Originally I didn't understand why anyone would put a proxy between them and an LLM, but it actually adds some quite significant value: 1. By far the lowest friction way to support and try out all the models. 2. They offer billing caps! Most model providers still don't do this [EDIT: maybe they do, see reply comment], but if you're going to run anything in public…

It's not just comparing all the models, it's also comparing all the providers and configurations of those models.

If you're doing any kind of production AI work you'll end up with outages caused by calling a single provider, OpenRouter seamlessly switching between providers is a godsend for uptime.

But even more than that there's meaningful cost+speed differences.

Here's Sonnet 4.6 being served direct, via Amazon and via Google

https://la9q13gg8w.evvl.io/

(spoiler: Google was both fastest and cheapest)

Re: OpenRouter raises $113M Series B

#234

Post by numlocked »

Oli_dev wrote: post #165
numlocked wrote: post #141

Hi HN! OpenRouter co-founder and COO here. Lots of questions about why we raised! First off: We remain founder-led and founder-controlled, and intend on being here for a long time, creating awesome products for builders all over the world. We are basically a bunch of tinkerers who like building things, and try to make stuff that we would like, when building with AI. Since this is about the raise though, happy to shar…

Heya! First off, I love your product. consolidated billing/auth solves a big pain-point, so thank you. Less about the funding and more about the long game: where do you see OpenRouter in 3-5 years, and which product bets are you most excited about right now? Do you guys think with this new raise you'll branch out into other adjacent verticals?

Our general theory of the case is that, in the not so distant future, inference will be the second largest opex line item for most companies (behind headcount) and that sourcing, measuring, and governing those tokens is a massive horizontal opportunity.

We will inevitably expand into adjacencies because we like building things and experimenting and we have a lot of people with great taste who are likely to ship cool things that customers want to use!

Edit: also - THANK YOU!

Re: OpenRouter raises $113M Series B

#235

Post by numlocked »

potamic wrote: post #213
numlocked wrote: post #141

Hi HN! OpenRouter co-founder and COO here. Lots of questions about why we raised! First off: We remain founder-led and founder-controlled, and intend on being here for a long time, creating awesome products for builders all over the world. We are basically a bunch of tinkerers who like building things, and try to make stuff that we would like, when building with AI. Since this is about the raise though, happy to shar…

> We don't need venture dollars to continue scaling (indeed the business is healthy) but you know when you don't want to raise $100m? When you really need it! That's a nice narrative but I suspect you're not touching upon the investor pressure side of things. Your earlier investors would be upon you to show a multiple in valuation beyond what the balance sheets can show. The only way to do that is to raise more money…

Great investors are helpful, not harmful :) You want accountability from smart, experienced partners!

Re: OpenRouter raises $113M Series B

#236

Post by numlocked »

CMay wrote: post #231
numlocked wrote: post #141

Hi HN! OpenRouter co-founder and COO here. Lots of questions about why we raised! First off: We remain founder-led and founder-controlled, and intend on being here for a long time, creating awesome products for builders all over the world. We are basically a bunch of tinkerers who like building things, and try to make stuff that we would like, when building with AI. Since this is about the raise though, happy to shar…

The Openrouter website says that y'all do not train on the data, but it does not make it clear that the data is not shared with any 3rd parties (other than the LLM provider) who might train on it. There is the example of Apple and Google providing transport for push notifications, but claiming to delete the content and only preserve the metadata. What is Openrouter's policy on this? Is the logging of user data an ess…

We have never sold any prompt data to anyone, in any form, and have no plans to do so. Full stop.

Re: OpenRouter raises $113M Series B

#237

Post by potamic »

cheschire wrote: post #221
potamic wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don't need venture dollars to continue scaling (indeed the business is healthy) but you know when you don't want to raise $100m? When you really need it! That's a nice narrative but I suspect you're not touching upon the investor pressure side of things. Your earlier investors would be upon you to show a multiple in valuation beyond what the balance sheets can show. The only way to do that is to raise more money…

I’m interested what you believe the intent of your message to be. You’re talking to a COO that just raised money as if you’re mentoring someone about to approach VCs for the first time. Hugely patronizing attitudes often just get a pass here on HN, but what is your purpose for using one here?

I think you misread my comment, I might've been lazy in constructing it. I don't mean to mentor anyone, rather I'm putting out my read of the situation so there's a common ground over which to discuss.

For me, raising $100m when it's not needed doesn't add up. Nobody lends money with the idea to "keep it, just in case". There are always commitments and expectations and obligations to meet those expectations. So when they said they didn't really need to raise, while also not talking about investor expectations, feels there's more to the situation than is being let on.

Re: OpenRouter raises $113M Series B

#238

Post by simonw »

what wrote: post #186
simonw wrote: post #6

It took me quite a while to come round to OpenRouter. Originally I didn't understand why anyone would put a proxy between them and an LLM, but it actually adds some quite significant value: 1. By far the lowest friction way to support and try out all the models. 2. They offer billing caps! Most model providers still don't do this [EDIT: maybe they do, see reply comment], but if you're going to run anything in public…

What kind of compensation are they giving you?

None. It's sometimes possible for people to say something positive about a project without being paid!

(If they were paying me they got a bad deal, since I called out the flaws in their leaderboard approach half way through my post.)

Re: OpenRouter raises $113M Series B

#239

Post by segmondy »

numlocked wrote: post #236
CMay wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Openrouter website says that y'all do not train on the data, but it does not make it clear that the data is not shared with any 3rd parties (other than the LLM provider) who might train on it. There is the example of Apple and Google providing transport for push notifications, but claiming to delete the content and only preserve the metadata. What is Openrouter's policy on this? Is the logging of user data an ess…

We have never sold any prompt data to anyone, in any form, and have no plans to do so. Full stop.

Can you also confirm that you do not log/retain it. 100% pass through. If you are logging it, you could one day change your position on that.

Re: OpenRouter raises $113M Series B

#240

Post by potamic »

numlocked wrote: post #235
potamic wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don't need venture dollars to continue scaling (indeed the business is healthy) but you know when you don't want to raise $100m? When you really need it! That's a nice narrative but I suspect you're not touching upon the investor pressure side of things. Your earlier investors would be upon you to show a multiple in valuation beyond what the balance sheets can show. The only way to do that is to raise more money…

Great investors are helpful, not harmful :) You want accountability from smart, experienced partners!

Sure, but only to the means where they see a multiple. And sometimes that be at odds with the fundamental value prop of a business.
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