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It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#231

Post by fragmede »

cardanome wrote: post #213
benoau wrote: post #101

As nice as Apple's hardware is it's all undermined by who they are as a company, intentionally limiting their devices more and more while they relentlessly argue in courts and to regulators that we owe them more and more for using our devices. Rosetta 2's retirement announcement was when I realized I won't buy another Mac, I'm not interested in a computer that is preoccupied with stopping me from running software. Wo…

That is all true but even as a hardcore Linux and Thinkpad user, I have to admit it is a hard sell when no one can offer the quality of Apple. Apple is the only hardware company where you can buy a product and it is good hardware wise. Sure other companies have flagship offerings but with apple you get a really good base model. And that is where it breaks down for me. Pay 20% more for freedom? Yes, absolutely. But pa…

And that device is the Lenovo Chromebook Plus 14 OLED. The paper specs are great, all that's required is to turn it into a fully fleged Linux laptop and get rid of ChromeOS and core boot entirely. I just got hibernate working on it last night, wifi, sleep and sound and the fingerprint sensor works. There's some more polish and tuning to be done, but this'll be the machine I move off my apple silicon laptop for.

Apple hardware is only perfect when looked at through rose tinted glasses. The whole butterfly keyboard issue should be enough to indight them from being seen as perfect with hardware. There's a reason Applecare exists, and it's not just because of accidental spills.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#232

Post by trouve_search »

cardanome wrote: post #213
benoau wrote: post #101

As nice as Apple's hardware is it's all undermined by who they are as a company, intentionally limiting their devices more and more while they relentlessly argue in courts and to regulators that we owe them more and more for using our devices. Rosetta 2's retirement announcement was when I realized I won't buy another Mac, I'm not interested in a computer that is preoccupied with stopping me from running software. Wo…

That is all true but even as a hardcore Linux and Thinkpad user, I have to admit it is a hard sell when no one can offer the quality of Apple. Apple is the only hardware company where you can buy a product and it is good hardware wise. Sure other companies have flagship offerings but with apple you get a really good base model. And that is where it breaks down for me. Pay 20% more for freedom? Yes, absolutely. But pa…

I've been using an asus zenbook 14 OLED with linux. Compatibility is great.

The screen blows apple out completely. It's clearly, obviously better. The fan noise and battery life are worse than Apple. The keyboard feels better to type on, the trackpad is slightly worse, but not enough to annoy me.

The new Pop OS cosmic is a very fun OS concept for laptops with the autotiling workspaces as a fundamental primitive.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#233

Post by IshKebab »

drnick1 wrote: post #137

The point of the Framework is to run Linux, and not to be part of Apple's ecosystem. I don't want my computer to update itself without my permission, report telemetry to Apple, upload anything to any "cloud" or request that I log into something. If you don't think this is a big deal, wait until an age or identity verification law is passed somewhere, and Apple will enforce it against your will, on the computer that y…

That's not the only point of Framework. It also has to be a good laptop, and priced well enough that its repair/upgrade story actually makes sense.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#234

Post by bel8 »

akkartik wrote: post #121
AshamedCaptain wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually not bad? "The most repairable MacBook in years" means practically nothing. And for someone who might be comparing with a Framework, it's probably an insult.

You're preaching to the choir, brother. But reread the comment I replied to. "Use as-is until e-waste" the Neo is not.

> "Use as-is until e-waste" the Neo is not

That's a very low bar to clear

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#235

Post by akkartik »

bel8 wrote: post #234
akkartik wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're preaching to the choir, brother. But reread the comment I replied to. "Use as-is until e-waste" the Neo is not.

> "Use as-is until e-waste" the Neo is not That's a very low bar to clear

[flagged]

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#237

Post by geerlingguy »

cassianoleal wrote: post #39
taude wrote: post #36

I really want a Framework 12, but not in current incarnation. Hoping for an upgrade with aluminum body. I don't mind the pricepoint. But didn't want a plastic notebook at this point. Want a great couch computer for surfing the net, ssh'ing to machines, writing, etc.... What I surprisingly really miss, is my macbook air 11". But probably won't be surprised if I end up with a Framework 13 Pro once they're caught up on…

I had a MacBook Air 11" back in the day. 2nd or 3rd generation, I can't remember. The one that didn't stutter on YouTube. Amazing machine! I had always wished the screen was slightly bigger though. The insanely large bezel was a waste of space.

MacBook Air 11" form factor with 12" retina display (with thinner bezels) and M1 or A19 would be peak portability for me.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#238

Post by Havoc »

awakeasleep wrote: post #72

I don't like the comparison's fundamental assumption that they're addressing the same market. If these are both addressing the same market then yes of course the Neo wins. But I think actually one of these is for linux nerds and one is for the masses who barely understand what OS is running on it.

If you've got a device that is both cheaper and more performant then there is very little room for "different markets" arguments.

>linux nerds

Is unfortunately not enough to carry a product

Framework (and windows flavour laptops) will need to respond to the neo. Something along qualcomm's snapdragon is probably the best bet

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#239

Post by PhilipRoman »

carlosjobim wrote: post #217

I hate this talk of "justify". Does everybody think they've become an accountant now? Buy your nephew both computers. Or buy the one he prefers. Or buy the one you prefer. People are allowed to own several computers. They are allowed to own several phones. They are allowed to install several web browsers and several text editors. Why are hackers agonizing so much about small and meaningless decisions, which they don'…

Because it costs money? Believe it or not, most places don't pay you 6 digit salaries for shuffling around YAML.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#240

Post by Havoc »

aftbit wrote: post #6

If you're ideologically willing to use a Mac, you're really not the market that the Framework is targeting. Apple has always had some of the best hardware. Where they really struggle is in respecting user choice and allowing power users to alter their systems. The Neo is an appliance. The Framework is a tool. They're fundamentally intended for different people. If your choice of platform is driven by hardware instead…

>If you're ideologically willing to use a Mac

A grouping that has substantially expanded recently. Me included.

I'd prefer to run linux, but if my usage case is browser, opencode, neovim and terminal...all of those I can make work in a mac world if need be

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