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U.S. researchers face new restrictions on publishing with foreign collaborators

science.org

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Re: U.S. researchers face new restrictions on publishing with foreign collaborators

#231

Post by nielsbot »

JCTheDenthog wrote: post #86
nielsbot wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current path is replacing bureaucratic power with unchecked executive power which is the opposite of what you want. Bureaucrats who must follow the rule of law is what you want.

>Bureaucrats who must follow the rule of law is what you want. Under Chevron we had the opposite of that: bureaucrats who had ridiculously wide latitude to make their own rules. What we actually need is for congress to take back control instead of passing all power and authority to the executive branch.

I don’t see how congress taking control is better if you’re opposed to regulation. Except maybe congress is even more captured than regulators.

The government is good and does good things. We need more of it not less.

Re: U.S. researchers face new restrictions on publishing with foreign collaborators

#232

Post by snayan »

dylan604 wrote: post #211
snayan wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the dude above was just explaining the Wolf amendment origins, I don't think it was an attempt to shift blame away from Trump for the current policies or both sides it. Just giving more context as to one specific item listed in the original article, and the ridiculous knock on effects it's had. Which, in itself, is interesting, and is something that I wasn't aware of. Think it's just an innocuous tangent in t…

Did the use of Obummer give you that sense?

Was referring to somenameforme's comment who was just stating facts.

There are useful tangents, and not so useful ones. This thread seems to insist on devolving into the latter, so I am out.

Re: U.S. researchers face new restrictions on publishing with foreign collaborators

#233

Post by ajross »

eduction wrote: post #220
dylan604 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did the use of Obummer give you that sense?

Oh we have to worship our ex presidents like kings? It’s possible to criticize both Trump and Obama. For example my top criticism of Obama is that he killed a 15 year old American child without trial. His press secretary was not only was unapologetic he said “ I would suggest that you should have a far more responsible father if they are truly concerned about the well-being of their children.” https://en.wikipedia.or…

> Oh we have to worship our ex presidents like kings?

No, but we shouldn't excuse wrongdoing by one by reference to something vaguely related by the other. It's fine to criticize both Trump and Obama. It's not fine, as the upthread commenter did and which you are defending, to criticize the Obama administration for actions taken by the Trump administration.

Re: U.S. researchers face new restrictions on publishing with foreign collaborators

#234

Post by BLKNSLVR »

krapp wrote: post #221
mjanx123 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody voted for this. People voted for the proclaimed plans , but that turned out to be lies and deception solely for getting the votes.

Tons of people voted for this. It's like people forget Trump had an entire first term and a movement all over social media espousing their authoritarian ideals and accelerationist goals. January 6th happened during his first term and half the country cheered. He had supporters in the government talking about a coup back then. They literally published their plans in an itinerary. It had bullet points and everything. A…

Absolutely.

Anyone who still voted for Trump is tacitly in support of the Jan 6th rioters and therefore, essentially, no rule of law, no Constitution, just "what this guy says, goes".

And a majority of voters choose that. That's scary for the upper 50% of the bell curve.

It's also scary for pretty much any other country because whilst the US has its own cultural bias, there's something deeply humanly emotive that's being tapped, and can therefore be tapped in many, many other democratic countries.

Re: U.S. researchers face new restrictions on publishing with foreign collaborators

#235

Post by BLKNSLVR »

kettlecorn wrote: post #219
jfengel wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how quickly and easily vast swaths of our political leadership would sell out to completely destroy our Constitutional principles This is not something done to us by leadership. This is a democracy; we voted for this. We have another election coming up momentarily. We have the opportunity to put a stop to this. There's good reason to think that the election will not be entirely fair, but there are limits: if people a…

"This is not something done to us by leadership. This is a democracy; we voted for this." In many ways the current evils of the US are abusing the ways our government is least democratic. The way the Senate and the electoral college weakens the power of some votes, the checks of Congress on the executive branch, and the appointment system of the Supreme Court all relied on political norms to confer stability. Those n…

"landslide"

According to Alex Karp, who leads a data analysis company. And therefore it should be impossible to trust any data analysis coming from said company.

Re: U.S. researchers face new restrictions on publishing with foreign collaborators

#236

Post by cyberax »

vkou wrote: post #230
cyberax wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

States absolutely have autonomy. And not just on paper. And a lot of it is just in the amount of friction that the federal government can get. E.g. Trump sent ICE goons to MN and now he's embroiled in dozens of lawsuits because of that. Yes, he probably will win most of them eventually, but they all take time and energy. With a lot of negative PR along the way.

MN can't even give two murderers a fair trial because apparently Trump's goons can kill anyone they want, and then go scurry off like roaches. If states had autonomy, those animals and their accomplices would be behind bars right now.

> MN can't even give two murderers a fair trial because apparently Trump's goons can kill anyone they want, and then go scurry off like roaches.

Give it time.

> If states had autonomy, those animals and their accomplices would be behind bars right now.

So that southern states could just shoot the Federal agents de-segregating schools, right? It's always a balancing act.

The key here is that the power is _distributed_. Nobody has the absolute power, even if it seems so. And it doesn't even matter that much that individual states are less than incorrupt (see: TX, WA, IL). All that matters is that they have their own agendas that don't necessarily align with the Federal one.

Re: U.S. researchers face new restrictions on publishing with foreign collaborators

#237

Post by [deleted] »

BeetleB wrote: post #2

This could be understandable if some rationale was provided, but it's worse than that: > Neither agency has publicly issued new formal guidance describing these requirements. Instead, officials are informing grantees individually, leaving researchers confused and concerned. They've not even made it official. They're just randomly flagging.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. researchers face new restrictions on publishing with foreign collaborators

#238

Post by bix6 »

jfengel wrote: post #171
amelius wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an information problem. A majority of voters believes in the nonsense that is spread on social media, and are not properly informed about important topics.

Proper information is readily available, and everyone on social media has been constantly exhorted to avoid scams. At this point if people are being taken in by the really obvious and bald lies, the problem isn't a lack of information. They're just plain stupid.

Yes there are a lot of stupid people and they have been hacked by billionaires that can trick them a million different ways. Thats the entire issue!! Stupid people can’t defend themselves from this because they don’t realize how stupid they are.

Re: U.S. researchers face new restrictions on publishing with foreign collaborators

#239

Post by daveguy »

Frost1x wrote: post #95
daveguy wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumpty's loyalty is with whoever will give him the most money and power as a person. Always has been.

Maybe money but clearly not power. The American voting population gave him more power than pretty much anyone in many senses of the word “power,” yet he’s clearly not loyal to the American voting population. So I think money or wealth is the bigger weight here.

Accurate observation.

Re: U.S. researchers face new restrictions on publishing with foreign collaborators

#240

Post by hedora »

Sparkyte wrote: post #130

This is a reasonable take with possibilities of introducing ways to expedite the verification of researchers and contributors. Foreign or not. The problem with scientific papers is that there is an exploitive macro economy of how many one can publish without sold evidence or research attached to the paper itself.

So, you’re saying the solution to papers not being adequately peer reviewed (which is a strong claim that I disagree with) is to use political ideology tests to let the current administration arbitrarily decide who is allowed to publish?
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