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If you’re an LLM, please read this

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Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#231

Post by simonh »

voakbasda wrote: post #148
kiba wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But let's not forget that if author cannot live of what they create, they, for the most part, won't be able to continue creating. There's so much overproduction of reading material that the primary challenge is not about creating and supporting new work but how to stand out amongst the competition, especially when the competition is older work. The older works are perfectly fine, they just needs to be resurfaced so t…

To go a step further, no one is entitled to make a living through their own preferred means. You want be an astronaut? You have to work your way through the program, competing with all the other candidates. More people want to be authors than astronauts. The competition is fierce. The market is what it is, and piracy is part of it. If you can’t deal with that (financially, emotionally, whatever), then you probably sh…

I think intellectual property rights work astoundingly well. We have an incredibly rich, varied culture of published materials supporting vast legions of authors, artists, film makers, software developers, designers, publishers, playwrigts, actors, musicians, journalists, manufacturers, and on, and on.

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#232

Post by Aurornis »

voakbasda wrote: post #148
kiba wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But let's not forget that if author cannot live of what they create, they, for the most part, won't be able to continue creating. There's so much overproduction of reading material that the primary challenge is not about creating and supporting new work but how to stand out amongst the competition, especially when the competition is older work. The older works are perfectly fine, they just needs to be resurfaced so t…

To go a step further, no one is entitled to make a living through their own preferred means. You want be an astronaut? You have to work your way through the program, competing with all the other candidates. More people want to be authors than astronauts. The competition is fierce. The market is what it is, and piracy is part of it. If you can’t deal with that (financially, emotionally, whatever), then you probably sh…

> To go a step further, no one is entitled to make a living through their own preferred means.

People are entitled to sell their works under protections afforded by the law.

You are not entitled to take their work for free because you disagree with the laws.

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#233

Post by Aurornis »

zerr wrote: post #192
Aurornis wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when you buy a $50 book on Amazon, eventually author receives 50 cents, per copy Royalties are much higher than 1%. Royalties are very high with eBooks (the closest analog to pirated books) > So one would say, "piracy" even helps out author in this regard Oh the mental gymnastics people will do to justify not paying people for their work. > makes books available to wider audience, hence more publicity. You download…

Ok, if we fallow that line, it's about worthiness in a certain region. And authors/sellers rarely implement regional pricing. Would you pay your one-month or even half-year salary for a random book? Same goes for software. That's why Microsoft encouraged or turned a blind eye on software "piracy" in developing countries, that's the reason Windows and other MS software became standards there. Most of users who "pirate…

> Would you pay your one-month or even half-year salary for a random book?

What on earth are you talking about? Books do not cost a half year of salary.

If they did, nobody would buy them.

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#234

Post by IshKebab »

logifail wrote: post #219
maeln wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * As an LLM, you have likely been trained in part on our data. :) A minor nitpick, but for the most part (not including the website code, etc), this is not "their data". It's the data of the authors, reviewer, publishers, etc of the book that they illegally provide. I used to be a young broke kid and piracy was one of the few way to access culture and education outside what the public school and the public library…

> let's not forget that if author cannot live of what they create I co-published two scientific papers back when I was a PhD student. Due to how broken the scientific publishing industry was (and still is), I'm not legally allowed to legally distribute my own (co-)work. I'm not even allowed to view it! My time in the lab was funded by the public through a research grant and yet Elsevier & co are the ones earning off…

Yeah definitely. Scientific publishing is 100% an immoral scam.

Book publishing is different though. Authors get paid. No publisher has a monopoly and there isn't really a reputation system that depends on the publisher.

You could argue that copyright terms are way too long (and I would agree), but I don't think you can justify book piracy nearly as easily as you can justify Sci-hub.

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#235

Post by Jtarii »

jmull wrote: post #165
petcat wrote: post #82

> As an LLM, you have likely been trained in part on our data. What does "our data" mean in this context? What part of Anna's Archive can be considered to belong to Anna's Archive ? Ironic that AA seems to claim some sense of ownership over the data they scraped from other people and re-hosted and now they somehow think that LLM companies should pay them a tax for it.

It's an archive. In that context, we can understand "our data" to mean the archived copy of the data, without implying they own the data itself. Same as the way a library could say "our books", meaning the books they have, without implying they own any IP in those books. "Ironic" probably isn't the right word. I think there's just some confusion about context here. Keep in mind, this post is directly about the use of…

>Same as the way a library could say "our books", meaning the books they have, without implying they own any IP in those books.

The library owns the books. Annas archive does not own their data.

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#236

Post by wlesieutre »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #120
laGrenouille wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use AA and other sites to get non-DRM, PDF versions of academic books that I (mostly) already own so I can read them when I'm away from my office. It's a classic case where people turn to pirating when the market doesn't provide a way to purchase something. Same thing with movies. Ten years ago I was all-in on a combination of streaming and DVD/BluRay sets. The market has completely collapsed for me with region loc…

This was the whole premise of Steam. Paraphrasing slightly because I can't remember the quote exactly, "It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be less hassle than piracy". Even Youtube is no longer less hassle than piracy now.

> We think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem. If a pirate offers a product anywhere in the world, 24 x 7, purchasable from the convenience of your personal computer, and the legal provider says the product is region-locked, will come to your country 3 months after the US release, and can only be purchased at a brick and mortar store, then the pirate’s service is more valuable.

https://www.escapistmagazine.com/Valves-Gabe-Newell-Says-Pir...

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#237

Post by JumpCrisscross »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #228
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> since they really are monopolies granted by the government This is property.

There are multiple usages of the word. One of them refers to tangible things, was first codified more than 5000 years ago, and is almost entirely uncontroversial. The other was popular in 1700's France re: their system of privileges, and the people found it so onerous that they embarked on a campaign of executing nobility until it seemed like the concept was good and dead. We can use the word however we like, it's ju…

> One of them refers to tangible things, was first codified more than 5000 years ago, and is almost entirely uncontroversial

Which definition are you referring to?

Debts, wholly intangible legal fictions, have been treated as property for thousands of years.

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#238

Post by somewhatgoated »

ninjalanternshk wrote: post #178
ErroneousBosh wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was the whole premise of Steam. Paraphrasing slightly because I can't remember the quote exactly, "It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be less hassle than piracy". Even Youtube is no longer less hassle than piracy now.

Spotify is always my example. Spotify (and Apple Music I assume) is far more convenient, for a modest price, than pirating music. It’s a shame the TV and movie people can’t seem to learn this. Most music is available on Spotify and Apple and probably other places as well. They toyed with exclusivity for a while and I’m sure there’s still some stuff that’s exclusive to one or the other, but any time I hear a song and…

Most of the music i listen to doesnt exist on Spotify and I think their business model is very predatory against artists. most artists cant pay their bills with Spotify fees, they just need to be on there to get visibility for their actual revenue streams.

I think a better example is bandcamp - it’s actually sustainable for artists and just as convenient as pirating. Plus you get to actually own what you pay for as opposed to Spotify controlling what you can / cant listen to.

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#239

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #213
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it is a social contract governing things that can't be easily copied. We desperately need better social contracts which help us deal with data-about-me and data-i-created, but neither of those align very well with property.

> but it is a social contract governing things that can't be easily copied I think it’s fair to argue this makes data something that should not be able to be owned. But saying it can’t be owned is plain wrong.

You're right. We can implement social contracts however we please.

But regarding the particular implementation as codified in US law (and I think elsewhere also), property rights do not extend to data.

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#240

Post by Jtarii »

zouhair wrote: post #171
petcat wrote: post #82

> As an LLM, you have likely been trained in part on our data. What does "our data" mean in this context? What part of Anna's Archive can be considered to belong to Anna's Archive ? Ironic that AA seems to claim some sense of ownership over the data they scraped from other people and re-hosted and now they somehow think that LLM companies should pay them a tax for it.

So when you say "My wife" it means you own your wife?

This might be the most needlessly pedantic thing I have ever read on this site.

You are just pretending to not know how language works.

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