Live data from Hacker News

The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

harpers.org

231–240 of 250 posts

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but I dont think any UBI scheme says "everyone live at the same level" more like "everyone gets enough to not die" which is a very different framing. Work or die vs Work to gain additional benefits.

We already have welfare programs. Nobody is starving to death in the US.

That's just incorrect.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-04-13/...

Having been welfare adjacent more than once, getting food stamps is difficult and many legislatures have spent the last few years making it way more difficult, adding job requirements and the like. Ideologically you are probably fine with that, but it has consequences that you seemingly do not perceive.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know why people downvoted this because it is obviously correct. In a democracy you have to buy the votes of the largest constituency with other people’s money, which in this case is the boomers votes with the younger generations money. This will continue until nothing is left. This already happened with the triple pension lock in GB, mathematically ensuring the bankruptcy of the state.

It's happening in the US, too. I know of a senior couple where the husband recently retired after forty years of working in a professional field. They live in a house worth over $750k that is paid off. They have three new or late-model vehicles. Both the husband and wife could, if necessary, work for an income. They also collect Old Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance checks after enrolling for them. The common…

Go to bogleheads and read for awhile - you get an amazing view into the “rich” in various stages and it’s eye-opening in a number of ways.

You find those who have saved so much they have no hope of spending it all and yet are still scared to spend. Those who spend months worrying if they can buy a new car to replace their 25 year old Camry and yet they live on social security alone while having mandatory IRA disbursements in the thousands.

Social security et al should never have been sold as “savings for the future” and just been another tax.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#233
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...I don’t know why people downvoted this because it is obviously correct. In a democracy you have to buy the votes of the largest constituency with other people’s money, In the last few decades both political parties in the USA have tried to outdo each other in reckless over-spending, but for the first couple hundred years that wasn't the case. Something changed.

You can read this exact criticism of democracy in „Athenaion Politeia“, (The Old Oligarch), 5th century BCE. There is nothing new under the sun. It always worked like this. Democracy is simply an incredibly destructive form of government.

Democracy hasn’t even been good at its sole point - preventing violent revolution.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've had decades to save up the money that allows them to do the things alongside work. They also came up in a time and place that allowed them to build social relationships outside of work. Many Gen Xers and Millennials just... don't have that kind of personal time. I know several people in my circle of friends who don't want to do anything after work because they're exhausted. Bills gotta be paid, and there's mo…

I'm curious how you figure that pressure to increase profits has increased?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Welch#Criticism

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> through the perspective of some 1930s West Virginia mine worker like you do. That was the personal attack I was referring to. I was referring to the dynamic of the obvious frustrations seemingly driving much of Trumpism, and yet you're imparting that back onto me . That's called shooting the messenger. > You’re starting from the values that you think should matter to people, then faulting them for not making decisi…

@rayiner, responding to your [dead] comment -

You keep attributing straw man points to me, and then dutifully knocking them down.

A recognition that many people feel disenfranchised and preyed upon by our system, which is why they turn to [what I consider] extremist fantasies like communism or Trumpism, does not represent "my analytical perspective".

More germane to our "conversation", I merely threw out "fix the labor market for blue collar citizens" as an example, reflecting a context of arguments that most people make.

So no, I am not "taking cultural relativism as axiomatic" - that's merely your strawman pigeonholing of my position. An example of constructively stating your point about culture could be something like "re-popularize values that made our culture successful".

Of course culture in the abstract has the same vague generality as "values" or "policy", and so I would ask the analogous thing about which specific constructive aspects of culture you see Trump and Trumpism as improving. For example simply "deport people from other cultures" is not constructive as it's framed on the negative dynamic rather than as a constructive outcome to be achieved. I'm not going to give a constructive example this time lest you make another straw man out of my attempting to fill in the blanks of your argument. Rather as it's your argument, you should make it!

Also note that it is necessary to talk in terms of objective cultural values rather than handwaving about a previously dominant culture because, love it or hate it, our society is intrinsically multicultural. And I know that M-word can be triggering for a whole host of negative talking points, hence the need to focus on the positive/constructive.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US birth rate began to drop in the 1960s. [0] At the time we were a more self-contained economy. Since then, there are fewer births per capita, and we've opened up global markets for labor and resources. If you have fewer people aging into markets for goods and services as time goes on, you have to monetize them more intensely in order to maintain revenues. At the same time, other markets (China, India, etc.) off…

Why wouldn't people "monetize" things before?

Because you can only monetize people so much before they get testy about it.

They get tired of being advertised to. They start complaining about being nickeled and dimed for every single thing they used to get as a part of another purchase. They look at their wages staying flat while costs go up and up.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How else would you deal with people who are too old to do the job, and too senile to realize they can no longer perform and should abdicate? Because we have politicians who can barely walk and talk on their own they're so goddamn old. These aren't the best and brightest of our country, these are old people who can no longer string together enough thoughts to understand their mere presence is hurting the entire countr…

> How else would you deal with people who are too old to do the job, and too senile to realize they can no longer perform and should abdicate? Mandatory retirement age? Voters being adults and fucking paying attention, instead of acting like children and believing everything they see on TV and social media?

[dead]

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have welfare programs. Nobody is starving to death in the US.

That's just incorrect. https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-04-13/... Having been welfare adjacent more than once, getting food stamps is difficult and many legislatures have spent the last few years making it way more difficult, adding job requirements and the like. Ideologically you are probably fine with that, but it has consequences that you seemingly do not perceive.

The article is about old people having malnutrition due to poor eating habits and Covid disruption and the general ineptness of the government, and does not support your thesis.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#239
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is usually the part of the conversation where someone mentions slave labour in an emerald mine and immigration fraud and then comes the part where you usually say something along the lines like "hasn't been proven in court!"

Musk started with a $20,000 loan from his family. You could buy a used car for $20,000, no emerald mine and slaves required. Musk parlayed the loan into $trillions.

It would have been so cool if you didn't derail this conversation about 'Confronting America’s gerontocratic crisis' with your Elon Musk fanboy-ism.

So cool.

Re: The Old Guard: Confronting America's Gerontocratic Crisis

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Elon Musk stopped producing value quite a while ago No evidence of that. > Everyone who's ever spent 6 months in big tech knows how easily compensation is divorced from value. You could always sell your yourself to a big tech company with your expertise in who are the value ones. A person with that skill would be very valuable to a company.

Sir, I understand that you did some cool, useful stuff in your career and got rewarded for it and that's a case of the system working, but if you can't see various sycophants and crooks getting just as rich or richer, while contributing nothing, then I can't see it for you.

I need to see some evidence that Musk contributes nothing.
Post reply on HN