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Microsoft Edge stores all passwords in memory in clear text, even when unused

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Re: Microsoft Edge stores all passwords in memory in clear text, even when unused

#231
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's little hope of protecting against a snooper seeing the passwords you actually use, since they have to exist in plaintext at some point. But there's no reason to expose the entire password database when no passwords are even being used .

What's the threat model where not storing them all at once provides any benefit? If someone has admin it's already game over. Can just hook the browser to retrieve all passwords on demand.

An attacker might only have read access. Could be a read buffer overflow like Heartbleed, a partial sandbox escape, a sophisticated Spectre-type vulnerability, a cold boot attack, or something mundane like a core file taken from a crashed process that gets into the wrong hands.

Re: Microsoft Edge stores all passwords in memory in clear text, even when unused

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of them using chromium shows how little they care. The old edge wasn't used much no but that wasn't due to its engine. Most people don't even know what a browser engine is. They just didn't want to bother making a browser. But they want to benefit from the marketing advantages of having a browser so now they just lift along with chrome.

> shows how little they care. I think they do care, but they care about relevance, not browser monoculture. Doesn't matter how good Trident was, no one was ever going to use it. Even Firefox is barely hanging on, and the only reason Safari is still somewhat relevant is because it's the only choice on iOS. And my relevance I mean their bread and butter, enterprise, not consumers. Edge is what lets MS give enterprise I…

Well that's the thing. I don't think anybody didn't use Edge because it was a different engine. The majority of users have no idea that edge is just chrome now.

It's just when they moved to chromium they also stepped up the marketing around it and all the lock-in in Windows and that's really what got people to use it. Basically the same thing they did to make IE a monopoly.

They also really heavily pushed companies to start using it. Every time we had a call with a MS consultant and we shared a screen they had to bitch about us not using edge, as if they were on commission or something. Eventually they manipulated our leadership into mandating edge to all employees. It's totally locked down now too, it's terrible for the users.

But my point is, they could have done this with the trident version of edge too. I've never heard anyone complain about compatibility. Whenever people didn't want to use edge it was because of a (totally justified) distrust of Microsoft. We should never give control over the internet to them again after what they did with IE (making it a monopoly through illegal means and then leaving it to wither away full of security holes). But unfortunately at work they have got them to remove all other browsers :(

Re: Microsoft Edge stores all passwords in memory in clear text, even when unused

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*over any untrustworthy network. To fair though, there are very few situations where the network is completely trustworthy, like your home network with no one else on it or a VPN direct to an HTTP server.

My understanding was that if you have a valid https session, you are good. A really really untrustworthy network could MITM your SSL connections and impose itself in front of all of them (Cisco IronPort?) but I think even then your browser will complain unless you've installed a proxy that allows it or a custom root certificate.

If there is no one else on the network between you and the server (like on your wired home LAN with no one else on it), you’re good, regardless of HTTPs.

It’s not enough for the network to be untrustworthy for MITM attacks, they have to use a certificate signed a by root certificate that your computer already trusts.

Organizations with those IronPort gateways use device management and Active Directory policies to pre-install a root certificate into your OS. The IronPort decrypts the original server then re-encrypts it with its own certificate to your computer.

If you used a non-organization managed device on those networks, it would show big scary warnings before letting you visit any HTTPS site that the certificate issuer is not trusted by your computer.

Re: Microsoft Edge stores all passwords in memory in clear text, even when unused

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss cheese applies to more than just security systems. Hiking with two GPS-capable devices is Swiss cheese.

That is redundancy in my book. I don’t expect holes in my GNSS devices. And if you want to be sure, bring three, because two GNSS units with different readings are not very helpful.

I don't expect holes. But both devices are exposed--something could happen to one of them. And since I like going out in the middle of nowhere I assume I either have to get myself out, or if that's impossible summon help. I don't want a single point of failure on either of these.

Re: Microsoft Edge stores all passwords in memory in clear text, even when unused

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > Why should I redo everything? > Nobody is asking you to? Nobody is in fact asking you to change everything.

They literally are. You can easily google articles telling people to use passkeys for all their supported accounts. I'm not going to google it for you. Why you are trying to claim the opposite is beyond me.

Hey Crazy Gringo, you may be schizophrenic. An article recommending a security update is not, in fact, telling you to do something.

Re: Microsoft Edge stores all passwords in memory in clear text, even when unused

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have now gone from having to “redo everything” to being asked to switch to a passkey by a grand total of one website. I’ll be honest I’ve heard a lot of griping about passkeys but I have gone out of my way to switch over to them and have had precisely zero issues over the dozens of sites that I’ve bothered to make the switch on. Login flow is simpler and doesn’t rely on a browser extension guessing at login fields…

>We have now gone from having to “redo everything” to being asked to switch to a passkey by a grand total of one website. Yeah right. When passkeys were rolled out, I was told it's OK because "passwords are always going to be required to be an available alternative". Now we've moved the goalposts to "it's just one website". >Sometimes the new thing really is just better. And sometimes your backpack is stolen when you…

If a website only supports one passkey on one device, it's a shitty implementation. To be fair many websites have shitty implementations, so I ended up using my yubikeys to store the secret for OTP codes.

Having only one device that has authority to log into your accounts is obviously not a good security model.

Re: Microsoft Edge stores all passwords in memory in clear text, even when unused

#239
In 2003 I interviewed to be security architect for MSFT Office. My final interview was with the guy they told me was "the most senior programmer in the office group" who had "been with the company since Albuquerque."

This was in the middle of the 2003 security stand-down and he started by asking "How are your QA skills? Cause in a couple months Bill (Gates) is going to forget all about security and we'll get back to writing code the way we always have. And we won't need a Security Architect so we'll have to find a job for you and I was thinking QA."

Corners of Microsoft doing stupid things with respect to security isn't an accident. It's a natural consequence of their culture.

That being said... There are (or at least were) some amazingly good security brains in Redmond. It's just that not all groups got the security memo.

Re: Microsoft Edge stores all passwords in memory in clear text, even when unused

#240
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All true, but it is still bad style. There is no need to keep decrypted passwords in memory the user hasn’t even used in the session (or after they logged in to a certain website).

So you decrypt each time you need it? What is the difference in the attack surface?

What I don’t need doesn’t need to live unencrypted in my RAM. Of course I do. It is standard behaviour of iOS, and of a lot of password managers. If someone grabs my laptop and runs, at least they can’t capture my hn account.
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