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Networking changes coming in macOS 27

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Re: Networking changes coming in macOS 27

#231

Post by alsetmusic »

ninkendo wrote: post #169
wazoox wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but AFP is still performing way better than SMB on Mac for any fast networking. Like 10GigE and faster. Apple SMB stack is a disaster, and thoroughly unprofessional. NFS is faster, too, but unfortunately the Finder, being the rat nest of bugs it is, has often trouble with NFS shares.

macOS 26 still has a hard kernel panic if you try to mount an NFS share with krb5 auth but don’t have a valid Kerberos ticket. 100% reproducible. Every OS update I try mounting with no ticket, get a panic, fill in the error reporting dialog with a nice “hope you had a nice holiday break!” message or whatever is seasonally appropriate, with the same simple steps to reproduce. It’s just kinda comical at this point. My…

> I used to work at Apple and I’d have filed a radar for it but now I’m just a customer so I’m powerless.

I filed a radar while working there on a bug that was introduced in 2009 and it's still not fixed because it was low in the stack and the person responsible for it said they didn't think it was wise to make changes that late in the beta cycle (it was close to the annual release). It's never been fixed. I stopped checking major releases about five or six years ago.

Re: Networking changes coming in macOS 27

#232

Post by devmor »

mschuster91 wrote: post #212
_verandaguy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economics make the reasoning obvious, though. With closed source IP, every bit of support, from bug fixes, to feature requests, to compatibility fixes to integrate with newer mainline/foundational tooling, costs money. With open source projects (and in particular ones like Linux where there's a huge number of contributors and interested parties), support for would-be niche facilities can keep going as long as the…

> With open source projects (and in particular ones like Linux where there's a huge number of contributors and interested parties), support for would-be niche facilities can keep going as long as there's someone with the knowledge and spare time to do it. And that increasingly gets difficult to do. i386 support went down the drain in the kernel in 2012, i486 is probably going down the drain as well this year [1] and…

Mentioned this elsewhere recently, but ISDN hardware is still widely used in the broadcast industry.

I am unsure if linux support has any bearing on it, though.

Re: Networking changes coming in macOS 27

#234

Post by nozzlegear »

joe_mamba wrote: post #227
coldtea wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What "walled garden"? The Mac-only apps aside, what's that that you couldn't get on Windows (and most even on Linux), either the same thing, or a zero-switch-cost subscription (it's not like you need to rebuy something to go from Music to Spotify for exampe). iCloud? You can use Google Drive or Dropbox or whatever MS calls theirs. Apple Music? Pretty sure it plays at both. Most major apps are cross platform (Adobe, M…

How many long term MacOS users actually know how to use anything else than MacOS and their ecosystem apps and would feel comfortable switching away? I mean Average Joes off the street, who can't find Ukraine on the map, not HN users of Macs with a SaaS side hustle.

Then there's no actual walled garden here, just a vague "Mac users are too dumb to realize there are more options" line in the sand.

> I mean Average Joes off the street, who can't find Ukraine on the map

How many Ukrainians can find Iowa or Missouri on the map? This metric means nothing.

Re: Networking changes coming in macOS 27

#235

Post by joe_mamba »

nozzlegear wrote: post #234
joe_mamba wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many long term MacOS users actually know how to use anything else than MacOS and their ecosystem apps and would feel comfortable switching away? I mean Average Joes off the street, who can't find Ukraine on the map, not HN users of Macs with a SaaS side hustle.

Then there's no actual walled garden here, just a vague "Mac users are too dumb to realize there are more options" line in the sand. > I mean Average Joes off the street, who can't find Ukraine on the map How many Ukrainians can find Iowa or Missouri on the map? This metric means nothing.

>Then there's no actual walled garden here

With this bad faith line of reasoning that ignores user defaults, ecosystem ties and switching friction, Windows was also never a monopoly because companies and users could just switch to Mac or Linux whenever they wanted.

>How many Ukrainians can find Iowa or Missouri on the map?

Since when is Missouri a country?

Re: Networking changes coming in macOS 27

#236

Post by sersi »

bborud wrote: post #200
throw0101c wrote: post #13

Time Capsule has been unsupported since 2018 (last shipped 2013): * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirPort_Time_Capsule I think there's some population of folks that have been doing NAS TM backups over AFP, and they'll now have to switch to SMB.

Did they ever work? No, seriously. I've had a couple of them and the few times I really could have used them I discovered that they represented the worst backup solution I've ever had the misfortune to deal with. Slow, very hard to use beyond their primary integration with the OS (which isn't good to begin with), there's really no good way to keep an eye on how they are doing (what's actually backed up, if it is stil…

I just wish the new CEO decides to do a snow leopard release. Also change the macos release to when it's done instead of yearly

Re: Networking changes coming in macOS 27

#237

Post by throwaway270925 »

halapro wrote: post #202
ryandrake wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Dropping support for things just because they are old" is typical commercial software behavior. I can run the latest Linux kernel and still have access to an internal floppy disk drive if I wanted to, yet billion dollar companies can't seem to manage to support 10 year old stuff. I still am sore from when I "upgraded" macOS and suddenly support for my 1080i TV was gone. Yesterday it worked fine, today it's gone. All…

Ok what do you suggest? Every feature ever written should be supported in perpetuity even if 3 people are using it? Clearly you didn't think this through. Should 2026 computers have a ISA interface as well? Supporting old hardware and software has a substantial cost that only grows exponentially. Companies exist to print money, not to cater to the smallest niches. It would be great if they could support things, but I…

> Should 2026 computers have a ISA interface as well?

Fun fact: Yes! Basically all still do, because TPM chips are connected to the CPU via ISA.

See for example: https://hackaday.com/2023/03/23/isa-over-tpm-to-your-pc/

Re: Networking changes coming in macOS 27

#238

Post by ninkendo »

donavanm wrote: post #219
ninkendo wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

macOS 26 still has a hard kernel panic if you try to mount an NFS share with krb5 auth but don’t have a valid Kerberos ticket. 100% reproducible. Every OS update I try mounting with no ticket, get a panic, fill in the error reporting dialog with a nice “hope you had a nice holiday break!” message or whatever is seasonally appropriate, with the same simple steps to reproduce. It’s just kinda comical at this point. My…

Hah. I actually had opendirectory, OSX clients, and CentOS/RedHat clients running krb5 NFS off of netapp filers circa … 2008? Lots and lots of NFS in the (mansfield) hardware org at that time. I think krb on osx started getting hard around 2010 when they moved tickets and other credentials to a process aware in memory store. Became difficult to use TGT or machine identity for automation. And yes, Im sure theres a ver…

Yup, judging by your username I was on your team! I’m Ken, I was in that org 2011-2013. You were one of the best teammates I had, you taught me a lot.

Small world!

Re: Networking changes coming in macOS 27

#239

Post by coldtea »

nozzlegear wrote: post #234
joe_mamba wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many long term MacOS users actually know how to use anything else than MacOS and their ecosystem apps and would feel comfortable switching away? I mean Average Joes off the street, who can't find Ukraine on the map, not HN users of Macs with a SaaS side hustle.

Then there's no actual walled garden here, just a vague "Mac users are too dumb to realize there are more options" line in the sand. > I mean Average Joes off the street, who can't find Ukraine on the map How many Ukrainians can find Iowa or Missouri on the map? This metric means nothing.

>How many Ukrainians can find Iowa or Missouri on the map?

Their country doesn't make decisions about American on their behalf (or even at all), so they don't have a moral obligation as citizens to. And Iowa and Missouri are mere states, and not even very interesting ones at that.

Re: Networking changes coming in macOS 27

#240

Post by donavanm »

ninkendo wrote: post #238
donavanm wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah. I actually had opendirectory, OSX clients, and CentOS/RedHat clients running krb5 NFS off of netapp filers circa … 2008? Lots and lots of NFS in the (mansfield) hardware org at that time. I think krb on osx started getting hard around 2010 when they moved tickets and other credentials to a process aware in memory store. Became difficult to use TGT or machine identity for automation. And yes, Im sure theres a ver…

Yup, judging by your username I was on your team! I’m Ken, I was in that org 2011-2013. You were one of the best teammates I had, you taught me a lot. Small world!

Nice! Awesome coincidence, happy to hear from you. I feel like that team was somehow both the tail end of the system admin hacker era and on the forefront of what would become “devops” and system management infra. And now, cloud… cloud, as far as the eye can see.
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