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Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

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Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#231

Post by garciasn »

rkomorn wrote: post #200
crazygringo wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. Especially since self-checkout is almost always with a card tied to your identity, not cash. Depending on the value, the police probably aren't going to show up at your address, but use that card again at the store in the future and you might find the security guard coming over. Or, like many stores, they wait for you to do it repeatedly until it adds up to enough for a felony instead of just a misdemeanor…

I agree that they're well aware. I once got stopped at self checkout because I put two vegetables (peppers, IIRC) of different types in the same bag and weighed them together. They were the same price so it's not like I was trying to pull a fast one one anyone, but "the system" noticed and flagged me for someone to come over. This was pre-pandemic, and I'm sure they're not less capable now than before.

IKEA did this to me two years ago. Flagged me as not having paid the right amount. Turns out that they sell fake plants as one cost and the pot you put them in as another; even if they're put together.

It was a difference of like $5 at most on a $400 bill. I suppose 1.25% is enough to pay someone in another country to monitor everything.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#232

Post by nkohari »

crazygringo wrote: post #198
compton93 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's crazy. But coming from someone who wrote a book on retail fraud and worked as a retail fraud analyst for several years... you could have just walked straight out with those items. Transacting was your way of leaving a calling card for the investigators/analysts to find you... You stole regardless of how you did it.

Seriously. Especially since self-checkout is almost always with a card tied to your identity, not cash. Depending on the value, the police probably aren't going to show up at your address, but use that card again at the store in the future and you might find the security guard coming over. Or, like many stores, they wait for you to do it repeatedly until it adds up to enough for a felony instead of just a misdemeanor…

I used to work in a suburban supermarket during high school and college, first as a cashier and then as a frontend supervisor and payroll clerk. We had a security booth where you could watch security cameras, and it was literally never manned. Tapes were changed, but they were there mostly in case someone would try to rob the place. Cashiers routinely rang their own lunch up either as 99 cents or as bananas. No one cared.

Supermarkets actually factor breakage, theft, and spoilage into their books as "shrink", which averages between 2-3% of sales. There's no detective building a case, biding their time to bring down the banana bandit.

Although, modern self-checkouts have cameras on the scanner with ML-powered item detection, and they will alert the attendant if you incorrectly scan something that's sold by weight. (I've done this before on accident, fat-fingering the wrong PLU.)

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#233

Post by Aurornis »

weli wrote: post #8

This is pretty dangerous. At least in my country the displayed price must be honored and they cannot refuse the sale.

That law probably wouldn't apply if someone brought their own label printer into the store and put their own price tags on to the merchandise, which is essentially what this is.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#234

Post by zarmin »

Aboutplants wrote: post #29

I was in college when self checkout became a thing and it took us all of about 45 seconds to realize that you could just check everything out as bananas. Steak was weighed and priced at 4011 (banana code) as the stoned teenager cashier paid no attention. Everything on the receipt was literally Bananas

Rule #1 of working at a grocery store: you will remember 4011 for the rest of your life.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#235

Post by ssl-3 »

data-ottawa wrote: post #203

I’m very surprised here. I worked in retail many years, including doing store shelf tear downs and replacement and night shift stocking. Back in the day we would get our planograms from HQ, then we’d print out all the labels on perforated paper, and walk the shelves moving product and updating the price tags, throwing out the old. The epaper tags are very clearly an improvement to that process in both time and waste.…

It doesn't really change anything.

Previously, a criminal could just print their own shelf tags. They'd probably do this somewhere other than in the store to get the details right, but it was doable. (We've all probably seen rolls of blank shelf tags sitting around at the store, and thermal printers are inexpensive. So what if it's two crimes instead of one?)

And then, in the store, they could just switch out the shelf tag(s) and try to play their little scam.

Now with this new development, a criminal still needs to get the details right. Like a blank paper tag, the little screen is also a blank slate. It's just eraseable and rewritable in-situ.

The scam is the same. It's just shaped differently.

---

I do understand why the tags are simple to write. Maintaining some kind of revolving, PKI, or multi-factor auth would be harder than doing nothing, and probably slow. Fixed, basic auth would just get leaked (probably first by Home Assistant tinkerers who find some discarded electronic shelf tags somewhere and want a new display for their house).

One-way jnfrared is cheap and low-power compared to anything with RF. And resets would be a pain in the ass if things were forever associated with a certain product, or a certain place in the store.

The way it's implemented now, on reset (yay new planogram!): All the tags get pulled and put in a pile.

And then: One by one, they're removed from that pile, put on a shelf, and programmed.

That's fast and flexible, and therefore inexpensive. Inexpensive is good. If there's one thing that all retail establishments hate most, it is their labor expense.

It does fail to prevent obvious-scam from happening. But it'd probably cost more to do it "right" than to eat the losses when the scam actually works.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#236

Post by pnw »

runjake wrote: post #142
neuralkoi wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday I went to Walmart, and at the self-checkout the system quirked out and an attendant came by. She reviewed some sort of draconian overhead cam video of me trying to locate a tag out for a product to scan. Gave me "guilty until proven" innocent vibes. Are these systems actually effective?

Hey, something I'm somewhat qualified to answer! So, yes, these systems are actually effective. The systems and procedures are designed to look low key, but essentially perform PRISM-like mass surveillance behind the scene. These systems are managed by former US IC personnel. What happens is that your identity is tied to these purchases and after a certain threshold you get flagged as a thief, essentially. At that po…

How is your identity tied to the purchase if you are using contactless payment (e.g. Apple Pay) that produce an anonymous DPAN?

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#237

Post by dylan604 »

crazygringo wrote: post #198
compton93 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's crazy. But coming from someone who wrote a book on retail fraud and worked as a retail fraud analyst for several years... you could have just walked straight out with those items. Transacting was your way of leaving a calling card for the investigators/analysts to find you... You stole regardless of how you did it.

Seriously. Especially since self-checkout is almost always with a card tied to your identity, not cash. Depending on the value, the police probably aren't going to show up at your address, but use that card again at the store in the future and you might find the security guard coming over. Or, like many stores, they wait for you to do it repeatedly until it adds up to enough for a felony instead of just a misdemeanor…

> Especially since self-checkout is almost always with a card tied to your identity, not cash.

Pre-paid gift cards would fall into the part where almost always doesn't cover. There's a reason scammers love gift cards

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#238

Post by Aurornis »

rationalist wrote: post #216
crazygringo wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. Especially since self-checkout is almost always with a card tied to your identity, not cash. Depending on the value, the police probably aren't going to show up at your address, but use that card again at the store in the future and you might find the security guard coming over. Or, like many stores, they wait for you to do it repeatedly until it adds up to enough for a felony instead of just a misdemeanor…

Any lawyers here? > wait for you to do it repeatedly until it adds up to enough for a felony instead of just a misdemeanor Isn't there a concept in the legal system where you have to mitigate damages even if you're the victim? I can't think of the example off the top of my head that Steve Lehto (consumer lawyer on YouTube gave). I'm guessing people who steal from the stores aren't able to afford a decent lawyer, but…

> why didn't you stop him after the first theft? Why did you keep letting him steal?

Enforcement goes to the police. Stores can't apprehend thieves. There is a lot of training for store employees to not try to engage the thieves because some can behave erratically and dangerously when they feel like they're caught.

You can tell someone they need to stop and pay for merchandise, but if they choose to keep walking there's nothing the store staff can do but document and report it.

The reason stores wait until it reaches felony level to report it is because police are too busy to try to pursue every small case that happens everywhere. There are fewer crimes that rise to the level of a felony, so they have to focus their efforts on the smaller number of more serious crimes instead of taking every report FIFO style

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#239

Post by cogogo »

compton93 wrote: post #49
Aboutplants wrote: post #29

I was in college when self checkout became a thing and it took us all of about 45 seconds to realize that you could just check everything out as bananas. Steak was weighed and priced at 4011 (banana code) as the stoned teenager cashier paid no attention. Everything on the receipt was literally Bananas

That's crazy. But coming from someone who wrote a book on retail fraud and worked as a retail fraud analyst for several years... you could have just walked straight out with those items. Transacting was your way of leaving a calling card for the investigators/analysts to find you... You stole regardless of how you did it.

I know people who regularly stole this way. They would usually work in pairs and one would leave a full cart near the exit and the other would walk out confidently. Worst case they figured they would just act the fool and either leave the cart or pay. Irked me that they did this but not enough to rat. I bet these days doing that with any kind of regularity would have you starring on much higher quality film.

Re: Edit store price tags using Flipper Zero

#240

Post by cogogo »

data-ottawa wrote: post #203

I’m very surprised here. I worked in retail many years, including doing store shelf tear downs and replacement and night shift stocking. Back in the day we would get our planograms from HQ, then we’d print out all the labels on perforated paper, and walk the shelves moving product and updating the price tags, throwing out the old. The epaper tags are very clearly an improvement to that process in both time and waste.…

Just recently I was in a small shop where I was surprised to see epaper tags and ended up talking to the owner about them. She said they were super flaky and would reset at random. Agter that interaction I am not at all surprised a flipper could mess with them. But I also have not seen them widespread at the physical outlets I shop at.
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