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Israel escalates attacks on medics in Lebanon with deadly 'quadruple tap'

theguardian.com

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Re: Israel escalates attacks on medics in Lebanon with deadly 'quadruple tap'

#231

Post by cineticdaffodil »

khaledh wrote: post #215
throway23423 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was referring to the terrorists in Iraq who were depicted in 'The Hurt locker'

Those are just Iraqi's that were defending their nation from a foreign invasion.

These where clan militias fighting for a headstanrt in the proxxy civil war to come. There is no iraq. Its a iranian proxxy with a sunni province and a basically split of kurdish region. That "nation" never existed except in western maps and heads. Those "freedom fighters" where the basis for isis and the iranian militias. None where patriots, just in it for the family wearing the state as skinsuit. They thoroughly disproved all neoliberal cultural ideals about universal nneeds and wants.

Re: Israel escalates attacks on medics in Lebanon with deadly 'quadruple tap'

#232

Post by snvzz »

troad wrote: post #116
notepad0x90 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

compared to whom? how does one measure that purity? certainly Hammas is more pure in those terms, not that it is a competition (but you're alluding that it is).

They all suck. There are no good polities in the Middle East. At this stage into the genocide-counter-genocide cycle, there are no clean hands left. We need to switch to renewables asap, and just withdraw completely from the Middle East. They all want to kill one another for fanatical or ethnic reasons, and we clearly have no capacity to stop them. We should insulate ourselves from the region and restrict any involve…

Then they get nukes and the means of delivering them.

Unfortunately, we are at an era no area can just be ignored.

Theocracies oppressing their own people while aiming for expansion, particularly, must be dealt with.

Else, they will eventually oppress the entirety of humanity.

Re: Israel escalates attacks on medics in Lebanon with deadly 'quadruple tap'

#233

Post by notepad0x90 »

sagarm wrote: post #223
notepad0x90 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Nobody cares about the legalistic rambling about the ICJ. We know an atrocity when we see it.

Yeah, who disagreed with that? "war crime" is not a random term you can throw at things you don't like. you can dislike an atrocity, but you have no right to do anything about it.

It's so hypocritical. Not a single post on HN I've seen even brought up the genocide in sudan or other african countries. I'd like to see where you commented on how everyone who supported and provided refuge to Hamas and its leaders were committing an atrocity.

making noise about 'war crime' or atrocity does nothing except inflame the very propaganda being used to commit those atrocities, and legitimize all other atrocities being committed, from Iran to sudan, to ukraine and elsewhere. You pick and choose which genocidal country deserves attention based on your bias.

Iran's nuclear program was justified because they were eventually attacked, and Israel's atrocities are retroactively justified by people who insist they have no right to exist.

guess what, if I was an israeli and you're saying I have no right to exist, and should be genoicded or ethnic-cleansed, I wouldn't care about any atrocities against you either.

You don't care about legalisms and ICJ, so what do you care about? emotions? certainly you don't seem to care about actually doing something. organizations like ICJ exist for the purpose of doing something, and in this case it is ineffective.

I think my rambling about ICJ is more productive than other ramblings about "atrocity" or "from the river to the sea".

Re: Israel escalates attacks on medics in Lebanon with deadly 'quadruple tap'

#234

Post by khaledh »

cineticdaffodil wrote: post #231
khaledh wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are just Iraqi's that were defending their nation from a foreign invasion.

These where clan militias fighting for a headstanrt in the proxxy civil war to come. There is no iraq. Its a iranian proxxy with a sunni province and a basically split of kurdish region. That "nation" never existed except in western maps and heads. Those "freedom fighters" where the basis for isis and the iranian militias. None where patriots, just in it for the family wearing the state as skinsuit. They thoroughly d…

If we follow your logic, then I'd argue that similarly, there's no countries in the world. In particular, there's no United States, it's land colonized by Europeans who came to that land and slaughtered its indigenous people and claimed it for themselves.

Re: Israel escalates attacks on medics in Lebanon with deadly 'quadruple tap'

#235

Post by aibrahem »

jon_adler wrote: post #225
C6JEsQeQa5fCjE wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's confirm your claim through DNA tests to establish ancestry of Israelis and Palestinians. Oh, they're banned in Israel?! Why would they possibly be banned?? Could it be that...

DNA tests aren’t banned in Israel.

It’s extremely regulated, especially conducting research into the ancestry of Israelis. Which makes you question the legitimacy of the research coming out of Israel about this topic, Not to mention that respected Israeli researchers who colored outside of the party line were reprimanded or called self-hating Jews.

Re: Israel escalates attacks on medics in Lebanon with deadly 'quadruple tap'

#236

Post by khaledh »

C6JEsQeQa5fCjE wrote: post #218
fastasucan wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you a terrorist if you attack an invading force during a war?

Yes, for the sole reason that it's just a label assigned by an invading enemy government. The problem is that the label is used in media to assign moral judgement, when it's just a political proscription that is typically assigned for entirely geopolitical reasons. Almost every country occupying a foreign territory, or is engaged in war with a group, or even another country, calls military action of the other side te…

Terrorists specifically target civilian or government targets to make a statement or a demand. Those Iraqis were targeting American soldiers. The term doesn't apply here, no matter how badly the occupier wants to impose it on those defending their country.

Re: Israel escalates attacks on medics in Lebanon with deadly 'quadruple tap'

#237

Post by khaledh »

SilverElfin wrote: post #221
basilgohar wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can dispute but you're still wrong. The majority of people under Islamic rule historically were non-Muslims but were afforded far greater rights than other societies, such as freedom or worship, protection, the right to their own laws, and the right to Islam's laws as well if they wanted. And yes, they were taxed. Muslims paid zakat, non-Muslims paid jizyah. We can't make non-Muslims pay a religious tax, so they…

Are you seriously trying to revise taxation of other religions into an “alternative” when it clearly was meant to discriminate and oppress them? The Quran literally says the jizya is about fighting those who don’t believe in “god”, to subdue them. You are spreading revisionist misinformation, but it’s also so obvious and easy to disprove with a quick search. Why even try to spin it this way?

> The Quran literally says the jizya is about fighting those who don’t believe in “god”, to subdue them

Please quote this part from the Quran. I'd like to learn more.

Re: Israel escalates attacks on medics in Lebanon with deadly 'quadruple tap'

#238

Post by aibrahem »

SilverElfin wrote: post #221
basilgohar wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can dispute but you're still wrong. The majority of people under Islamic rule historically were non-Muslims but were afforded far greater rights than other societies, such as freedom or worship, protection, the right to their own laws, and the right to Islam's laws as well if they wanted. And yes, they were taxed. Muslims paid zakat, non-Muslims paid jizyah. We can't make non-Muslims pay a religious tax, so they…

Are you seriously trying to revise taxation of other religions into an “alternative” when it clearly was meant to discriminate and oppress them? The Quran literally says the jizya is about fighting those who don’t believe in “god”, to subdue them. You are spreading revisionist misinformation, but it’s also so obvious and easy to disprove with a quick search. Why even try to spin it this way?

The mainstream academic consensus is that Jews generally fared better under Islamic rule than in medieval Christian Europe. Scholars also agree that jizya was paid in lieu of zakat (which Muslims paid) and military service.

Of course, this raises the question: if Jews fared better under Muslim rule than under Christianity, why would they leave their alleged homeland and go to Europe, only to want to go back a thousand years later?

Re: Israel escalates attacks on medics in Lebanon with deadly 'quadruple tap'

#239

Post by aibrahem »

SilverElfin wrote: post #186
nielsbot wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s dishonest is your racist defense of a murderous and genocidal country that cynically uses Judaism as a shield for war crimes. You should really think deeply about how you’re conflating the Zionist state with the Jewish people… not sure a lot of them are in board with your project. There is no world in which a Jewish-supremacist state is righteous. As for equal rights, it is to laugh. Israel is an apartheid sta…

Your comment is an example of that dishonesty, since you’re ignoring all the Islamic supremacist states while stating your opinion that Israel is supremacist. Something like 20% of Israel’s population are Muslims, and they’re prospering there, so you can’t call it supremacist. On the other hand, officially Islamic nations are explicitly supremacist. They have state religions and laws against blasphemy and rampant sys…

Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and Israeli group B’Tselem have published reports characterizing Israel’s legal framework (especially considering the occupied territories) as apartheid or involving systemic discrimination. I’m not sure what more can be said.

Re: Israel escalates attacks on medics in Lebanon with deadly 'quadruple tap'

#240

Post by khaledh »

snvzz wrote: post #232
troad wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They all suck. There are no good polities in the Middle East. At this stage into the genocide-counter-genocide cycle, there are no clean hands left. We need to switch to renewables asap, and just withdraw completely from the Middle East. They all want to kill one another for fanatical or ethnic reasons, and we clearly have no capacity to stop them. We should insulate ourselves from the region and restrict any involve…

Then they get nukes and the means of delivering them. Unfortunately, we are at an era no area can just be ignored. Theocracies oppressing their own people while aiming for expansion, particularly, must be dealt with. Else, they will eventually oppress the entirety of humanity.

> Then they get nukes and the means of delivering them.

Remind me, which country was the only one in the world that actually used nukes to kill hundreds of thousands of unarmed civilians?

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