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We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

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Re: We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

#231

Post by avian »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #226

> We even have a 99% reputation score in SendGrid. Gold star. A+ student. Why that would matter ? That's about as valuabe as Trump's peace prize use actual google tools to see actual reputation https://postmaster.google.com/v2/sender_compliance You can also add some headers to get per-campaign spam reputation and any issues

> use actual google tools to see actual reputation

Google has a v2 of the postmaster tools that are actually useful now? Awesome news! I totally missed that.

All v1 ever showed me as a small-time mail server admin was equivalent to "nothing to see here".

But v2 now actually shows me things like compliance status and user reported spam rate for my domains.

Re: We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

#232

Post by mathieuh »

Larrikin wrote: post #45
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know if this is true with Font Awesome, but more and more companies are spamming my inbox despite disabling any promotional emails in their settings. So, I mark any unwanted email as spam in Gmail immediately, and even leave bad reviews. Having my email address is not the same as having my consent. Stop trying to roofie us with malicious EULAs.

I remember there was a thread some years back with an article complaining that you get emails immediately on sign up, but that it can take up to 10 days to stop receiving emails when you unsubscribe. One spammer said they could use the same servers for both but when you unsubscribe you have immediately signaled that you are now losing him money. So he uses the slowest cheapest part of the stack for removal. He will n…

My phone network provider ran some "12 days of Christmas" promotion last year which entailed a spam email trying to hawk me crap I don't need every single day. When I tried to opt-out they told me it would take a month. I emailed the ICO and the network provider's complaints team and miraculously they were able to remove me from the mailing list immediately.

Re: We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

#233

Post by bell-cot »

Maxion wrote: post #213
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but that it can take up to 10 days to stop receiving emails when you unsubscribe This is a really bad business practice, people will just mark your mail as spam and the likelyhood of other people seeing your mails will drop

I still do not understand how marketers haven't understood that quality > quantity.

Inside the marketing org bubble, quantity is the "any moron could see that" metric. So anyone who wants to get ahead, inside that bubble, had better be willing to optimize it.

Re: We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

#234

Post by nkrisc »

achandlerwhite wrote: post #170
Larrikin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember there was a thread some years back with an article complaining that you get emails immediately on sign up, but that it can take up to 10 days to stop receiving emails when you unsubscribe. One spammer said they could use the same servers for both but when you unsubscribe you have immediately signaled that you are now losing him money. So he uses the slowest cheapest part of the stack for removal. He will n…

It’s because transactional email and marketing email are two different systems.

As the end user: not my problem, I don’t care, I don’t need the implementation details.

I only care about what I see.

Re: We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

#235

Post by kolektiv »

EGreg wrote: post #188
Larrikin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember there was a thread some years back with an article complaining that you get emails immediately on sign up, but that it can take up to 10 days to stop receiving emails when you unsubscribe. One spammer said they could use the same servers for both but when you unsubscribe you have immediately signaled that you are now losing him money. So he uses the slowest cheapest part of the stack for removal. He will n…

I have done the opposite We had a million people enter their email over the last decade We haven’t messaged a single one. Now we plan to start sending out a newsletter. For many, they may have forgotten downloading the app, but they might still appreciate it. If not - they can u subscribe.

> over the last decade

Be aware that under various regulations, you're potentially already at risk of accusation in terms of unwarranted data retention. If you haven't got a good reason to have kept those email addresses, something like the GDPR might not interpret that favourably. While the GDPR doesn't specify actual time limits, they are expected to be proportionate. Financial records are generally 7 years unless otherwise legally required, so for a decade, you would be saying that these email addresses are more critical/valid than that. That may be the case, I don't know your business, but be careful if you don't want some very awkward questions asked. Just the hassle of having to deal with complaints you might get (and various regulators would take notice of 1 million instances) is likely to be more than it's worth for most.

The suggestion downthread to send a very clear "we still have your address, would you like to opt in to this newsletter, otherwise we'll remove it" is not a bad one, but even then, some people will object to you still having it at all.

Re: We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

#236

Post by sylware »

gmail... toxic for internet now. But gmail toxicity is only the tip of the iceberg.

I remember when I had a gmail account, when they did shutdown the classic web view (noscript/basic (x)html) to force people to use one of the "whatng" web engines. No netsurf/links2/lynx anymore... wow, what a bunch of animals.

Then I moved to being self hosted (soon on RISC-V hardware of course, at the time, I could get my hands only on arm hardware, sad), then I lost my domain name. Of course the geniuses over there did the same thing than the animals at gogol: they broke classic web support (noscript/basic (x)html). Now, to pay for and book a domain name, you must have one of the "whatng" cartel web engines. Wow, geniuses indeed. Not even able to understand why there is an issue at depending on one of the massive and ultra-complex "whatng" cartel web engines.

To add insult to injury: spamhaus. Basically, if you do not "pay them", you are in their blocklist which many ultra-skilled sysadmins use without thinking twice, trusting those lists blindly. Of course, spamhaus is a nice "company" based in andore and switzerland... who said shabby as f?

Then, the email standard designers were careful to have "no DNS" support with IPv[46] literals (which is stronger than SPF, since emails, their envelop and header, referencing a SMTP server with a different IPv[46] can be dropped without further processing). gmail is forbidding its users to send to such email addresses, and when you try to send to gmail such emails from such SMTP server, they block them due to the IPv[46] literal. The bottom of the barrel of humanity.

They are turning internet into a new compuserve/aol. This is pure evil.

Re: We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

#238

Post by direwolf20 »

em-bee wrote: post #85
ryandrake wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we have to send a few thousands of confirmation emails What are you confirming, and why do you have to send it as E-mail? If it's sign-ups, just "confirm" using the same system that the user used to sign-up. Presumably HTTP.

on most services you sign up by using an email address (or a phone number) as an identifier. these need to be verified to make sure it's actually yours and not someone else's, or a typo.

If you used a username, you wouldn't have this problem. As it stands, signing up someone else's address for a lot of sites to spam them with confirmations is already an attack vector that's used in the wild. And that's legitimate spam and should be reported as spam and sites that do this are spam amplifiers.

Re: We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

#239

Post by mrweasel »

achandlerwhite wrote: post #170
Larrikin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember there was a thread some years back with an article complaining that you get emails immediately on sign up, but that it can take up to 10 days to stop receiving emails when you unsubscribe. One spammer said they could use the same servers for both but when you unsubscribe you have immediately signaled that you are now losing him money. So he uses the slowest cheapest part of the stack for removal. He will n…

It’s because transactional email and marketing email are two different systems.

That's not really relevant here. The complaint is that you start getting promotional emails right away, meaning that adding you to a mailing list is instant, but removing you somehow takes ten days. Normally you can't unsubscribe from transactional email, as they serve to provide you with information you're legally entitled to. There might be companies that are foolish enough to use the same system for both transactional and marketing email, but normally you'd never do that, because you exactly risk having things like order confirmation, recalls, invoices and so on, be tagged as spam, if it uses the same system as the marketing emails. Frequently you can use the same provider, allowing for tracking bounce rates, open indication and so on, but even if it's within the same interface or set of APIs, the two things are kept very separate on the backend. They'd at least use different email addresses, but frequently also different domains/sub-domains.

I've done both transactional and marketing emails, and I've never seen a system that could not remove a user at least within 24 hours. I can imagine one, but you're doing something very wrong at that point. Ten days is deliberate.

Re: We have a 99% email reputation, but Gmail disagrees

#240

Post by mrweasel »

gpvos wrote: post #209
EGreg wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have done the opposite We had a million people enter their email over the last decade We haven’t messaged a single one. Now we plan to start sending out a newsletter. For many, they may have forgotten downloading the app, but they might still appreciate it. If not - they can u subscribe.

Don't do that, it will be disastrous for you. Instead, send them a politely worded one-time announcement with an invitation to subscribe. Clearly mention that if they don't, this is the last mail they'll get from you, and keep that promise by deleting their address. You'll still get some pushback, but I think most people would find that acceptable.

At least with your suggestions there's some chance that their newsletter won't instantly get flagged as spam.

I'd do what you suggest, but send the newsletter from an separate domain once subscriptions have been confirmed.

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