Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and then one week my paycheck (which usually was on the second and fourth Wednesday of the month) wasn't in my bank account. I go the CEO of the company and mention this and he said something like "Oh yeah, something got fucked up with payroll man, don't worry we'll give you a double paycheck next time, with interest man". > I was young enough in my career to just accept that This reminded me of two much smaller-sc…
Just happened with my dad, with one of his rental tenants. One of them lost his job (didn't get the job after the probation period), so he had booked a flight back home. Except because of the war in the Middle East, the flights were delayed constantly so he couldn't go back - and given that his flight was on a budget airline, it would take ages until normal operations resume (they still haven't resumed). The guy kept…
What being ripped off taught me
231–240 of 247 posts
Re: What being ripped off taught me
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and then one week my paycheck (which usually was on the second and fourth Wednesday of the month) wasn't in my bank account. I go the CEO of the company and mention this and he said something like "Oh yeah, something got fucked up with payroll man, don't worry we'll give you a double paycheck next time, with interest man". > I was young enough in my career to just accept that This reminded me of two much smaller-sc…
Just happened with my dad, with one of his rental tenants. One of them lost his job (didn't get the job after the probation period), so he had booked a flight back home. Except because of the war in the Middle East, the flights were delayed constantly so he couldn't go back - and given that his flight was on a budget airline, it would take ages until normal operations resume (they still haven't resumed). The guy kept…
Re: What being ripped off taught me
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
Back in 2015 I worked for a startup. I turned down a job at a more stable company because this startup had me doing Erlang and I really wanted to work with that. The job worked fine for about six months, and then one week my paycheck (which usually was on the second and fourth Wednesday of the month) wasn't in my bank account. I go the CEO of the company and mention this and he said something like "Oh yeah, something…
Why was your mom your last resort? And why did you lie to her? Is this that American thing, where kids move to a different city at 18 and only visit their parents once a year for Thanksgiving? I'm in pretty much daily contact with my parents and siblings. They always know what I'm up to, what my financial situation is, and they would be my first contact in case of any difficulties.
Re: What being ripped off taught me
#234Re: What being ripped off taught me
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
And another lesson: If it looks like a complete catastrofuck the minute you walk in the door, walk straight back out again. Sometimes the only winning move is not to play. This isn't arbitrary peanut-gallerying, I've walked away from several jobs that weren't anywhere near as bad as the one in TFA because I couldn't see any way forward that wasn't going to end in disaster. One of them at least, I'm fairly certain, wo…
What kind of vibes are you picking up on? As a contractor, "project rescue" is a massive opportunity, so a bit of dysfunction is often a good sign.
- Fly out to the initial discussion, talk to their architect, some guy they imported from France in an otherwise entirely non-French company a long way from France (not bashing French folks here but just wondering where they dug this guy up). They've read about scalability and told him to come up with a design for that, which is distributed stateless everything (this was years before microservices and CRUD and whatnot). Except that they don't have the resources to build the stateless distributed everything so they're getting all the downsides of stateless distributed everything without getting the scalability that it's supposed to provide. You know its bad when one of the nontechnical sales guys that you're having a few drinks with after work can give you a breakdown if why it won't work.
- Parachute in for the first date, they've hired a bunch of kids straight out of college who are all hacking away at whatever they've been assigned to. So I'm walking around chatting to all of them, asking what they're doing and how long they think it'll take. Most of the time the answer is "oh, probably about two weeks". At the same time I'm running a mental Gantt chart for all the components and figure out that even if they meet their wildly, ludicrously unrealistic time estimates it's going to take them at least two years to get the product out the door. Some of their two-week timelines I estimate would take an absolute minimum of six months work, but probably a lot longer. Or a few days if they use the existing open-source tool that does the same thing, but they're going to do it better so they don't need to use any existing code.
- Site visit, the office manager screws up the travel arrangements, screws up the accom, the developers clock in at exactly 9am and down tools on the minute at 5pm so it's tumbleweeds in the office at 17:00:01, the mgt. is in a separate set of offices on the other side of the building and don't talk to the devs, over lunch the devs are talking about how much longer they'll stay before they start sending out resumes.
- The possibly-criminal one, I'll use an analogy to avoid identifying the actual job but lets say you've been brought in to develop an automated pen-testing toolkit. Not just a vulnerability scanner but something that then exploits the vulnerability. "You don't think that this could perhaps be misused by the people that commissioned it?". "Oh, we were so enthusiastic about the job that we never even thought about that".
You may have noticed a common theme here, talking to the techies and/or taking them out for lunch/drinks. So if there's one takeaway, it's do that. That's how you'll find out whether it's an organisation you want to get involved with or not.
Re: What being ripped off taught me
#236[flagged]
I'm adding this information because if I don't, some readers will assume we banned the account for sinister reasons. That, of course, is the whole point of this made-up story in the first place. It reminds me of the troll who created accounts with female-sounding names so that when we banned them, he could accuse us of sexism. Some people do this kind of thing.
Re: What being ripped off taught me
#237Re: What being ripped off taught me
#238Don't be a coward. Name and shame.
Re: What being ripped off taught me
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
During my MBA we were taught about the FedEx founding story [0]. The founder of FedEx got low on cash. So he took all the remaining cash (including what he owed in payroll) to Vegas and gambled it. And won, and paid his staff, and the rest is history. We were taught that this was a great example of "entrepreneurial hustle". I was horrified. How many founders copied this lesson? How many employees couldn't pay their m…
I've heard that story, though I always kind of thought it sounded like bullshit. Obviously I have no way to prove that, I guess I'm just usually skeptical of gamblers bragging about their big winnings. But yeah, even if it is true, then it's hardly a good lesson. "CEO took all remaining money to Vegas" isn't exactly something to idolize.
Re: What being ripped off taught me
#240"The faith was that if they didn’t pay, the legal system would enforce our California-law contract and make them pay."
Like come on dude. You left your wife and 2 year old child to fly across the world do this project on the faith that some random AR bus company would honor their word and pay you 35k? How did you think this contract would be enforceable? I've got a bridge to sell you if that's all it takes to get you to go all in.
Business in China does not operate the same way that it does in western countries. Period, end of story. If my California based AR bus company hired this person, agreed to pay them this amount in writing, signed the contract, then bailed. I would get sued and have to either pay this person or spend more money hiring a legal team to draw it out long enough to where this person quit trying to sue me. Either way thats not a great outcome, it makes my business look bad, there are repercussions so I would rather just pay this person the agreed amount.
In China they will just walk away and dissolve the company if you come after them hard enough (like the author mentions) and start working again under a new company name. They know this too, and they know that western businesses (Americans especially) are operating under the assumption that there will be penalties for not following through on something you said was going to happen, so they take advantage.
I guarantee that all this company intended to pay the author was the initial amount they gave to him in the upfront fee, knowing full well they would eventually leave the country once the work visa ended or the project time was up and they would never see them again / be able to just send a canned response back to any follow up about paying the full amount.
The company in China will sign whatever you want them to, you could ask for the moon in return if they don't deliver on their side of the agreement and they would happily sign it knowing that you won't be able to do anything but make a blog post about it if they don't.
When are we going to learn this?