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Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

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Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#231
post #219
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ridiculous that you're getting downvoted, you're 100% right. Though it's not unexpected given the forum. Many people here are either directly employed by social media companies and Big Tech, or are inside that bubble. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." The parallels between social media and cigarettes are undeniable. Nicotine and chemicals…

Just for the record, I am neither directly employed by social media, nor big tech, nor am inside that bubble. And I never have been. My salary includes precisely zero dollars linked social media in any way. But hey, don't let the facts stop you from spinning a good yarn, built on many fine cliches. Social media sucks. I used to use it, and I do not use it now. And yet regulating it, off the back of a moral panic, is…

I think I would agree with you outside of the specific context we’re living in. I’m not advocating for a patriot act. I’m advocating for arresting or punishing the terrorists who are documenting their acts in e-mail!

I’m not saying you can’t organize an anarchist group, but when you start hoarding weapons of war the FBI should investigate.

I don’t quite understand the fear you have that maybe putting a limit or two on a company who’s market cap rivals small nations is terrorism, because that market cap may start rivaling big nations, and Mark Zuckerberg is already an advisor to the president.

So I’m taking a second to consider the “obvious” consequences of my actions, but we’re living through the consequences of inaction. And if we don’t start taking small steps now, the Orwellian future you fear is coming, and governments will start taking big steps later.

By saying “there’s nothing we can do” you’re forcing the very future you’re trying to prevent, which by the way is already in the works in the form of age verification laws and social media bans for under-18s.

So maybe consider there are some valid concerns folks have before the people with invalid concerns take over.

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is respecting peoples freedoms nihilistic?

Because we’re entering this era where the only freedom we’re recognizing is the freedom to be miserable at some extreme end, “freedom” is just a euphemism for neglect.

To elaborate, people often see freedom as an unqualified good, but I think in a sense the opposite of freedom isn’t slavery but purpose.

Everyone talks about the sense of meaning that came from fighting world war 2 and that was a time when freedom in the world was extremely precarious. There was a draft.

Purpose turns into slavery when you only have one purpose and people use violence to enforce it.

Getting married, having kids, buying a house, having a job. These are all constraints on a persons freedom.

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is respecting peoples freedoms nihilistic?

Because we’re entering this era where the only freedom we’re recognizing is the freedom to be miserable at some extreme end, “freedom” is just a euphemism for neglect.

now that, my friend is truly a nihilistic world view, do you actually believe people can not be trusted to control their own fate?

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we’re entering this era where the only freedom we’re recognizing is the freedom to be miserable at some extreme end, “freedom” is just a euphemism for neglect.

now that, my friend is truly a nihilistic world view, do you actually believe people can not be trusted to control their own fate?

People dont have the power to control their own fate, only physics does. But we’re never truly free, there’s a society already built so it’s not really the choice between freedom and oppression, it’s always a specific set of freedoms and a specific set of oppressions, so if you close off all the doors people can use and leave only the traps; it’s not freedom to choose whatever trap you want.

But really, you look around and you see freedom? Really? Sorry for thinking bigger than that.

Maybe the opposite of what I said is true, that we’re so not free right now people are holding onto whatever freedoms they can not realizing the way they impact the bigger systems

Maybe what we need is not just specific interventions but antritrus law. Less control by any big organization, governmental or otherwise.

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#235
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What else could “at some point we limit your freedom of expression” possibly mean?

Yes, such a coherent argument: "no one is trying to restrict your speech, and if they were it would be good actually." There are people who just can't admit to themselves they actually hate free speech. Because they're people who've never needed it. They've never been abolitionists speaking against slavery, or civil rights leaders speaking against apartheid - whether in South Africa or the American South. They've nev…

> Somewhere out there is a young lesbian in Russia finding her people on social media, a young atheist in Saudi Arabia making friends online..

The real problem is, the oppression of these people is already happening. Mark Zuckerberg is not your friend and he’s come out saying he wants to make it harder for LGBTQ+ youth to find each other and be safe online.

Idle doomscrolling is not the problem, monopolization and the lack of real choice is.

You really want young women looking for information on abortion to be connected to anti-abortion support groups? Young gay folks to be sent conversion therapy literature, that young lesbian in Russia to be turned into the police? This isn’t speculation, it’s happening now.

Your ideals are noble, but you’re trying to protect something we’ve already lost. The days when social media was owned by folks pretending to be in the left are long gone.

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#236
post #93
post #5

We all know they're addictive, they're designed to be addictive, and they're very, very harmful, to both adults and children. The individuals who are profiting from the harm are clearly identifiable. And that harm directly targets children. That this is allowed to continue is a symptom of a sick society.

Hope they also go after the betting companies.

Polymarkets are a curse worse than casinos

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was astounded hanging out with my friends in person last weekend how every one of them at some point pulled out their phone mid conversation to watch TikTok, or Wordle, or whatever. To kill time, sometimes I watch those random "America's Funniest Videos" type videos where it's some random family at home and something funny/weird/etc. happens. I've started noticing that in almost all of them now, everyone is just…

30 years ago they'd all have been staring at TVs in their respective rooms. 50 years ago they'd be reading their own newspapers and magazines. The name changes but the song remains the same; people have their own interests, even within a family, that aren't shared with others. I wouldn't bore my partner by monologuing about my hobbies, and she likewise. At least we're in the same room together.

It’s not at all the same. It’s now ubiquitous, available at any moment, any time, always available to fill up every “empty” moment.

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#238
post #5

We all know they're addictive, they're designed to be addictive, and they're very, very harmful, to both adults and children. The individuals who are profiting from the harm are clearly identifiable. And that harm directly targets children. That this is allowed to continue is a symptom of a sick society.

I absolutely do not know they're addictive. I've lived through this entire story before in the video game wars. People said exactly the same things with exactly the same urgency about Mortal Kombat - what kind of sick society do we live in, where greedy corporations sell you the experience of shooting people and ripping their heads off? Perhaps we have to let adults buy these "murder simulators", but only a disturbed…

Except the number of people who are on social media daily is exponentially greater than those who played Mortal Kombat. You couldn’t play MK while on a dinner date; except for a few people, it didn’t replace a large fraction of social interaction. It’s not at all comparable. I strongly disagree that it’s a “moral panic”.

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#239
post #189
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But an adult is and should be allowed to develop a nicotine addiction. The reason why people do above all else is that nicotine is an intoxicant and (to most people) pretty pleasant. It's a rational choice. It's addictive, but the price of quitting is a few weeks of cravings. It's not like alcohol (which is relatively uncontroversial) or opiates. Don't let them sell to kids. Include scary images on the box. Whatever…

Should an adult be allowed to develop a heroin addiction? Why or why not?

The difference between heroin and nicotine, practically speaking, is that one of them will ruin your life and make you a burden to everyone around you and the other one will make you a little grumpy.

Re: Fear and denial in Silicon Valley over social media addiction trial

#240
post #239
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should an adult be allowed to develop a heroin addiction? Why or why not?

The difference between heroin and nicotine, practically speaking, is that one of them will ruin your life and make you a burden to everyone around you and the other one will make you a little grumpy.

What about cocaine? I know high-functioning people addicted to cocaine. Should that be allowed?
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