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Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

bbc.com

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Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#231

Post by nine_k »

nicoburns wrote: post #199
nine_k wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes: the time. It's spring time, when most crops are being sowed, of have been sowed and started growing actively. They won't wait several months until the production of fertilizers switches to electrically produced hydrogen, and tractors are upgraded to run off electric power. As the crops ripen, they won't wait until combine harvesters and trucks are converted to run off electric power. Nobody in the agricultural w…

> More than that, in a bout of bitter irony, the West might need to lift sanctions from Russian oil, The US has already done this!

Sanctioned shadow fleet takners still get arrested. With enough oil shortage, these tankers can be left alone, and the whole activity quietly encouraged.

Truly, Iran turns out to be an invaluable ally to Russia.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#232

Post by michaelt »

singleshot_ wrote: post #158
SirensOfTitan wrote: post #36

Scanning some of the early comments here, and acting as-if the oil and LNG disruptions is just a question of renewable investment is naive. This is the worst energy crisis in modern history, and little of the western world has really started feeling the effects yet: https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/dispatch-energy/iran-war-... Petro is pretty much upstream of everything: plastics, fertilizers, pharmaceuticals, cook…

> Petro is pretty much upstream of everything: plastics, fertilizers, pharmaceuticals, cooking oils, Really! What petroleum-based oil do you cook with?

A lot of people use fossil fuels in their cooking.

Just in the form of a gas, not a liquid.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#233

Post by Snawoot »

singleshot_ wrote: post #158
SirensOfTitan wrote: post #36

Scanning some of the early comments here, and acting as-if the oil and LNG disruptions is just a question of renewable investment is naive. This is the worst energy crisis in modern history, and little of the western world has really started feeling the effects yet: https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/dispatch-energy/iran-war-... Petro is pretty much upstream of everything: plastics, fertilizers, pharmaceuticals, cook…

> Petro is pretty much upstream of everything: plastics, fertilizers, pharmaceuticals, cooking oils, Really! What petroleum-based oil do you cook with?

Hexane is directly used as a solvent for edible cooking oil refining.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#234

Post by brigandish »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #141
leonidasrup wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably mean 3 much cheaper and faster to deploy methods to generate electricity. In Germany, Poland, Balkans it's solar, wind, coal.

Coal is generally more expensive than nuclear if you factor in health and carbon, which you should.

If you want to factor in health then private health insurance would be the way to do it.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#235

Post by unethical_ban »

OgsyedIE wrote: post #67
MattGaiser wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Petro is pretty much upstream of everything: plastics, fertilizers, pharmaceuticals, cooking oils, lubricants, cosmetics. Dow chemical just doubled the cost of polyethylene as of April 1st. Taiwan relies on LNG for 40% of its energy production and has like 10 days of fuel left--semis are implicated. This is, on the high end, 20% of the use of fossil fuels. We overwhelmingly burn oil and gas. If we displaced the bur…

You could visit an alternate timeline where you have as much renewable investment into energy as you'd like going back decades and while it would help with the fertiliser situation massively it wouldn't solve the problem of needing a supply of carbon atoms to make the carbon-based substances in the list. You can't make insulin, brake fluid or PVC out of electricity alone.

Nothing here challenges the assertion of the parent comment.

Fossil fuels are why climate change is occurring. Reducing FFs to near-zero would slow or stop climate change and allow the finite supply of oil to be used for the things you mention.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#236

Post by jopsen »

trinix912 wrote: post #28
gpm wrote: post #18

So... why is fuel 25% cheaper in Slovenia than in the neighbouring country while Solvenia is simultaneously having issues with running out of fuel? Seems like the obvious solution is to raise prices so people stop driving to your country (wasting fuel, ironically) to take your cheap fuel instead of just paying for the fuel in their own country. More than that it's a solution the free market would actually find on its…

We can barely afford it at the current price. The solution would be charging foreign transit the non-regulated price but that would be considered discriminatory.

Subsidizing gas is an expensive temporary bandaid solution.

Higher prices will drive EV adoption and busses.

In the EU, EVs or public transit is the only long term solutions we have.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#237

Post by tzs »

weakened_malloc wrote: post #188
jmyeet wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people just don't understand what a monumental rewrite of global politics this is and (IMHO) it will go down as the worst foreign policy mistake in US history and it's not even close. Some might say "what about Vietnam?" No, this is worse, geopolitically. WhY/ Because there was never any possibility of success. The US simply doesn't have the military capability to depose the regime or open the Strait and Pentago…

> I agree with your main point: "just go renewable" is both naive and utterly useless advice. That's a decades-long project. Also, who makes all the solar panels (and probably windmills)? China. This is the key point a lot of people miss, the vast majority of equipment needed to actually use renewables requires Chinese products. If you go 100% renewables, you're only replacing one form of dependence (oil) for another…

Once you have a sane people in charge of policy the building out of renewables quickly using Chinese panels and turbines can be accompanied by incentives do build up domestic manufacturing for them.

Solar and wind equipment lasts a long time so it is OK if it takes a decade or two to ramp up domestic production to the point that it can handle all our needs.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#238

Post by vkou »

nickff wrote: post #142
toomuchtodo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever Iran wants is the cheapest course to resolution.

We could achieve "peace for our time"... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_for_our_time

If you don't like making those kinds bargains in the future, maybe next time don't upset the status quo[1] by starting a war that you then go on to lose[2], which forces you to bargain from a position of weakness.

Everyone in the DoD with triple-digit IQ knew that this would be the most likely outcome of starting a war with Iran, but all of those people got purged by Trump last year.

---

[1] The status quo was that Iran was not in control of the strait, and all shipping traffic could pass through it.

[2] Iran has so far accomplished it's objectives in the war, the US and Israel did not. It didn't get regime-changed, and its in now in control of the strait.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#239

Post by jrmg »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #159
singleshot_ wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Petro is pretty much upstream of everything: plastics, fertilizers, pharmaceuticals, cooking oils, Really! What petroleum-based oil do you cook with?

Plant-based ones that were harvested by machines that burn petroleum.

And grown with fertilizer produced using energy provided by burning petroleum.

Re: Slovenia becomes first EU country to introduce fuel rationing

#240

Post by jltsiren »

nine_k wrote: post #195
falcor84 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything in that chain that actually requires petroleum and couldn't be replaced with alternative with similar properties and prices?

Yes: the time. It's spring time, when most crops are being sowed, of have been sowed and started growing actively. They won't wait several months until the production of fertilizers switches to electrically produced hydrogen, and tractors are upgraded to run off electric power. As the crops ripen, they won't wait until combine harvesters and trucks are converted to run off electric power. Nobody in the agricultural w…

Sanctions against Russian oil might ultimately not matter that much. Ukraine has already demonstrated that it can hit Baltic and Black Sea ports, and Arctic ports might also be within range. That would leave only Pacific ports and Asian pipelines open for exports.
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