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You are not your job

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Re: You are not your job

#231

Post by Ectiseethe »

sph wrote: post #224
abcde666777 wrote: post #122

Being able to see ourselves as something beyond our job (our means of survival) is a luxury. If a person can't provide for themselves the rest goes out the window fast. The only way to ease the anxiety in people isn't with fluff about their 'human worth', but rather to help them envision other tangible and plausible ways in which they can provide for themselves. The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we…

> The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we value about ourselves are generally not that valuable to others. I love my own personality and humanity, my soul if you will, but nobody's paying me for it, and so I have to value it accordingly. A good example of what tribes did better vs civilization: if you can do anything to help the tribe survive (I am a good hunter, you can create good bows), you are a pr…

> [Within tribes, if] you can't do anything, at least we still love you because you are kin.

That's a nice sentiment, but do you have sources for the claim that tribes universally "loved" non-productive members just because they were kin?

Re: You are not your job

#232

Post by speefers »

sph wrote: post #224
abcde666777 wrote: post #122

Being able to see ourselves as something beyond our job (our means of survival) is a luxury. If a person can't provide for themselves the rest goes out the window fast. The only way to ease the anxiety in people isn't with fluff about their 'human worth', but rather to help them envision other tangible and plausible ways in which they can provide for themselves. The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we…

> The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we value about ourselves are generally not that valuable to others. I love my own personality and humanity, my soul if you will, but nobody's paying me for it, and so I have to value it accordingly. A good example of what tribes did better vs civilization: if you can do anything to help the tribe survive (I am a good hunter, you can create good bows), you are a pr…

[dead]

Re: You are not your job

#233

Post by sph »

ludston wrote: post #164

I agree with this article fully, but there is a problem that most blog posts about identity don't talk about before telling you what do with your own. What is identity actually for? This is the only article I know of that talks about this: https://danielkeogh.com/blog/post/On%20not%20being%20miserab...

Thanks for sharing. I truly enjoy the author's definition of identity as optimisation to decision-making. It does make a lot of sense, and explains why big identity crises (midlife crisis, for example) can have devastating effects and take a long time to resolve. Questioning your identity is akin to going through an ego death, and many developers that do not want to accept this AI-driven future are going through some very painful feelings with large ramifications to their lives.

I can only recommend people going through these phases to treat it (seriously) like any midlife crisis. You can't sweep it under the carpet. Carl Jung has written a lot about those, start there.

(5 years deep into mine, and the timing of the AI revolution certainly made my quest much more difficult than I would have wished)

Re: You are not your job

#234

Post by xdertz »

Ectiseethe wrote: post #231
sph wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we value about ourselves are generally not that valuable to others. I love my own personality and humanity, my soul if you will, but nobody's paying me for it, and so I have to value it accordingly. A good example of what tribes did better vs civilization: if you can do anything to help the tribe survive (I am a good hunter, you can create good bows), you are a pr…

> [Within tribes, if] you can't do anything, at least we still love you because you are kin. That's a nice sentiment, but do you have sources for the claim that tribes universally "loved" non-productive members just because they were kin?

There are many instances of braces and artificial limbs or that were found or fossilised bones that showed crippled people that grew into old-age, which provides evidence that people cared for 'non-productive' members.

Re: You are not your job

#235

Post by anoplus »

abcde666777 wrote: post #122

Being able to see ourselves as something beyond our job (our means of survival) is a luxury. If a person can't provide for themselves the rest goes out the window fast. The only way to ease the anxiety in people isn't with fluff about their 'human worth', but rather to help them envision other tangible and plausible ways in which they can provide for themselves. The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we…

Seems like people forget that work is not the goal, but economical freedom is. And its all about politics. Humanity reached a production capacity that human work is barely needed to sustain everyone. But there is greed and wars. Also, humans are social creatures, we still need one another for relationships. Hell, removing work will let us enjoy our relationships even more. Also, as long as there are wars, rest assured there are plenty of jobs. War is, sadly, a huge industry

Re: You are not your job

#236

Post by kuerbel »

BobbyJo wrote: post #136
encrypted_bird wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your average person doesn't know how to grow their own food And, you know the sad part? A lot of places don't allow you to even try to learn. For example, my current place that I rent has a yard (it's a nice little trailer home), but I'm not allowed to have a garden. They even chopped down the nice tree that was growing in the yard when I first moved in. Oh, I can certainly try to grow stuff inside in containers, b…

To be fair, growing your own food is incredibly inefficient. Agriculture is one of the places where economies of scale shine very very brightly.

Not really. Only if you discount all external effects on the environment. There are more productive agriculture systems with more yield per sq* but more manual input, but less side effects. E.g. permaculture.

Re: You are not your job

#237

Post by [deleted] »

missingdays wrote: post #230
serial_dev wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some rare once-in-a-lifetime friendships, you are not disposable, and if anything were to happen to you, you would be missed. I can count those on one hand. For most casual acquaintances (that some people incorrectly label as friends), it's certainly true. On the family's side: only parents, siblings, children, maybe some aunt or grandparent. Second distant cousin you saw 3 times in life?

Is that not enough?

[deleted]

Re: You are not your job

#238

Post by crocodile10203 »

> The regrets were about relationships. Not staying in touch with friends. Not expressing what they felt. Working too hard. Not living true to themselves. The people who were dying weren't grieving their lost productivity.

> The people who love you don't love you because you're good at your job. They love you because of something else entirely. Maybe it's your humor. Maybe it's that you actually listen. Maybe it's that you remember things about their lives and ask about them. Maybe it's simply that you show up. You're present.

This feminization of society is concerning.

Sure you don't want to be corporate slave. But a man's native instinct is to achieve great things, push the boundaries, achieve fame.

"Be loved for what you are" is not how it works in the real world. Well not for men at least.

People on this site will sing praises of bellards and torvalds and knuths and bernsteins of the world, long after they're gone. For a man's deeds and heroism are his identity.

That's probably why every ancient Indo-European society fixated on heroism, renown of one's self and progeny.

We might today think of them as violent primitive pastoralists who didn't have the talk therapy like the tiktok teens from US of A.

But they understood something we don't.

You're not your job, surely. But you're your deeds. You're the children you raise. You're the society you create.

Re: You are not your job

#239

Post by rapnie »

xdertz wrote: post #234
Ectiseethe wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [Within tribes, if] you can't do anything, at least we still love you because you are kin. That's a nice sentiment, but do you have sources for the claim that tribes universally "loved" non-productive members just because they were kin?

There are many instances of braces and artificial limbs or that were found or fossilised bones that showed crippled people that grew into old-age, which provides evidence that people cared for 'non-productive' members.

Indeed. If one is crippled their 'value' for the tribe doesn't suddenly disappear. A person has their wit, their positive spirit, their wisdom and skills, their empathy, care and understanding for others that is important for the tribe's wellbeing. Etcetera.

Re: You are not your job

#240

Post by [deleted] »

Ectiseethe wrote: post #231
sph wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we value about ourselves are generally not that valuable to others. I love my own personality and humanity, my soul if you will, but nobody's paying me for it, and so I have to value it accordingly. A good example of what tribes did better vs civilization: if you can do anything to help the tribe survive (I am a good hunter, you can create good bows), you are a pr…

> [Within tribes, if] you can't do anything, at least we still love you because you are kin. That's a nice sentiment, but do you have sources for the claim that tribes universally "loved" non-productive members just because they were kin?

[deleted]
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