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Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

theguardian.com

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Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#231

Post by sigio »

M0r13n wrote: post #82

I've had a rough time with the last two EVs I've owned. I bought a Honda e in 2020 because of its retro-future charm, but ended up being disappointed by several things: - the range was miserable - the software quality was bad - no OTA updates ever (despite Honda's promises) - slow charging - poor public charging infrastructure in Germany I should have known that a 35 kW battery wouldn't deliver great range or chargin…

Public AC charging in Germany isn't great, but DC/Fast charging is quite good. I traverse the entire country with a Kia Nero EV, and that's not really a problem using either EnBW, Tesla or Ionity chargers. Besides these networks there are enough others with mostly nation-wide coverage (but not as cheap as these).

(EnBW and Ionity for 39ct/kwh, tesla for a bit more or less, depending on time and location)

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#232

Post by themafia »

tren_hard wrote: post #218
simonw wrote: post #90

The other day I was joking with friends about how I'd love to have a car with a deployable surveillance drone to help with parking and so if I'm stuck in traffic I could have my drone scout ahead and see what's up. Turns out BYD have one of those already! https://www.theverge.com/news/622963/byd-dji-vehicle-mounted...

I could see a future integrated feature among cars brands doing this with their cameras. Teslas in your area on the road are already monitoring everything, then flag available street parking spots so autopilot cars looking for parking are dispatched to the nearest one. No need for drones if you already have a sufficiently large fleet of cars on the road.

Why wouldn't we just wire up all the parking spaces with sensors and then have a city wide parking app just for this? That seems far more efficient and safer over having a fleet of parking scout drones randomly flying throughout the city.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#233

Post by rossjudson »

PreciousH wrote: post #18

no one is willing to admit the EV tech isn't just there yet to fully replace gas powered cars?

Gas powered cars can't fully replace EVs either.

After three years and 50k miles with a Model X, the idea of buying a non-EV seems ridiculous.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#234

Post by speedgoose »

anarticle wrote: post #193
speedgoose wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mini Cooper E, the one adapted from the i3 platform from 2013 but without the nice parts of the i3 such as the light carbon fiber monocoque, the aluminium frame, and the rear wheel engine and rear wheel drive?

Probably the J01 SE, an electric model not available in the US due to tariffs, but available everywhere else.

Oh I see. It sells extremely poorly in Norway. Looking at the specs, I could guess why.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#235

Post by nxm »

anonym29 wrote: post #225

Since when had Ford, GM, and Chrysler escaped irrelevance? With the exception of parking lot princess pickup trucks, they've been outsold on their own turf by reliable Japanese economy vehicles for decades now.

Volkswagen is on a faster pace to become irrelevance due to dependency on diminishing exports, high energy input costs in Europe, and labor union which wont't let them right size the company. Good luck VW

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#236

Post by nxm »

ahussain wrote: post #40
PreciousH wrote: post #18

no one is willing to admit the EV tech isn't just there yet to fully replace gas powered cars?

The EV tech seems to be good enough already in China

Heavily subsidized by China to undercut the international competition

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#237

Post by nxm »

rsynnott wrote: post #185
joe_mamba wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same VW models in China cost about 50% less than in EU.

Which should in itself tell you that VW can compete on price if it has to.

VW is too slow and bureaucratic to compete with China

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#238

Post by inglor_cz »

M0r13n wrote: post #82

I've had a rough time with the last two EVs I've owned. I bought a Honda e in 2020 because of its retro-future charm, but ended up being disappointed by several things: - the range was miserable - the software quality was bad - no OTA updates ever (despite Honda's promises) - slow charging - poor public charging infrastructure in Germany I should have known that a 35 kW battery wouldn't deliver great range or chargin…

One of the interesting trends in my life (I am 47 now) is the slow collapse of the "in Germany, things WORK!" concept.

It used to be actually true in the 1990s, but right now, I definitely expect better public services in Poland than in DE.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#239

Post by nxm »

speedgoose wrote: post #169
tw-20260303-001 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And cheaper. You sound like a broken record. > Remove the EV subsidies and ICE taxes.

Should I include the cost of the current wars?

Or bulk of NATO's defense costs, which Europeans refuse to contribute to

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#240

Post by pqtyw »

epolanski wrote: post #131
ericmay wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's an opinion, not a fact. It’s not an opinion. You’re welcome to go read China’s own self-published strategic plans on this or a litany of news and policy journals discussing this. > This is way too expensive for something like that to last. How can you claim it’s too expensive if you’re claiming you don’t even buy that it’s happening?? > The rush to the bottom is already killing so many chinese automakers loc…

> It’s not an opinion. You’re welcome to go read China’s own self-published strategic plans on this or a litany of news and policy journals discussing this. I didn't say they don't prop their carmaking, battery or ev industries. I said that I don't buy the argument it's bad for us. > They don’t need to sustain it really, globally they’re already poised to win which is why US, EU, Japan are going to have a lot of impo…

> Exports amount for 50% of german economy and 30%+ of Italian one.

And in China its barely 20%. But most of German and Italian exports go to other EU countries so its not exactly a fair comparison. Not quite the same but not that different to trade between different US states.

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