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What happens when US economic data becomes unreliable

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Re: What happens when US economic data becomes unreliable

#231

Post by righthand »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #172
silvestrov wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is only true as long as there is money for the military. When money is gone, the military is gone. Money goes easily when a country has a large debt and need other countries to continue to buy into that debt.

It's not the military that makes it impossible. It's the incredible level of interwoven left/right, progressive/conservative, urban/rural populations in more or less every state. More people voted for the current president in CA than in more or less any other state. Yet it is viewed as a "blue" state. The millions of Democratic voters in large cities like Houston or Atlanta may not control their state legislatures, b…

People are building bunkers and tax avoidance as protest is becoming popular again. I think all people want is to secede.

Re: What happens when US economic data becomes unreliable

#232

Post by pixelready »

hackyhacky wrote: post #125
quacked wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The frustrating thing about the empire collapse is that it doesn't need to happen. There are still tons of highly energized and ostensibly disciplined and competitive people here. It's just that the production base was sold off to foreign lands and the aesthetic and moral project of "America" was effectively discontinued, for reasons unclear.

> It's just that the production base was sold off to foreign lands It wasn't. You are conflating "production" with "manufacturing." They're not the same. The US, for better or worse, produces a lot of value. > moral project of "America" was effectively discontinued I'm not sure America was ever a "moral project," considering the many many dark parts of its history. Nevertheless, at the moment moment, it seems to be o…

Yeah, the more I learn about American history, the more I realize American elites were never bought in to the “moral project”, but were happy to use it as PR to a largely religious public.

Though I’m not particularly looking forward to living through the decline of the empire, I cling to the hope that a post-imperial America can emerge and attempt to live up to the dream of FDR, MLK, and that Jesus guy everyone seems to like so much but ignores all the inconvenient tolerance and sharing stuff he was so obsessed with.

Re: What happens when US economic data becomes unreliable

#233

Post by tastyface »

hattmall wrote: post #93
mikeyouse wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This ratchet effect of partially righting the ship every four years followed by drunken sailors YOLOing further into a reef because the ‘responsible party’ didn’t fix things fast enough is unsustainable. No clue how it ends but it’s so much easier to destroy things than it is to build them, so the builders are always at a distinct disadvantage.

I really have a hard time understanding the analogy of the "responsible party" existing, when it was objectively the Biden administration that did the most damage to the average American.

"""objectively"""

Re: What happens when US economic data becomes unreliable

#234

Post by robmccoll »

nico_h wrote: post #220
culi wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. The super rich have been in "prepper" mode for a long time now https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prep... > They started out innocuously and predictably enough. Bitcoin or ethereum? Virtual reality or augmented reality? Who will get quantum computing first, China or Google? Eventually, they edged into their real topic of concern: New Zealand or Alaska? Which region would be less affected…

The very plot of rainbow 6, a 1998 Tom Clancy novel, except the preppers are actually helping the catastrophes along. And, if I’m not misremembering, of Silo as well.

Helping the catastrophes along is Fallout.

Re: What happens when US economic data becomes unreliable

#235

Post by giardini »

pocksuppet wrote: post #131
input_sh wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue the empire already collapsed, about a year ago when DOGE was tasked with killing every form of soft power that were put in place to present the country in the best possible light across the world. Even with tons of talented and well-intentioned people and everyone fully aligned to re-build everything broken, it'd take decades to rebuild that trust that was lost in a matter of weeks.

The first sign many Roman citizens had that their empire had collapsed is when a bridge near them fell down and nobody showed up to repair it. America's been in that mode for a long time.

That is your local city and county, not the "American empire". And your judgement in choosing where you live!8))

Re: What happens when US economic data becomes unreliable

#236

Post by Aurornis »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #163
culi wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. The super rich have been in "prepper" mode for a long time now https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prep... > They started out innocuously and predictably enough. Bitcoin or ethereum? Virtual reality or augmented reality? Who will get quantum computing first, China or Google? Eventually, they edged into their real topic of concern: New Zealand or Alaska? Which region would be less affected…

> super rich have been in "prepper" mode for a long time now For every prepper in the $100+ million class, I know a hundred who are not. They’re enjoying their lives or working to make more money.

I second this. Prepping is far more popular among the middle and lower class people I know than the upper classes. Some mainstream religions even encourage prepping.

The perception that rich people are preppers comes from the string of stories about a few rich people prepping in New Zealand a few years ago. You can tell who gets their worldview from headlines when rich people are described as “they” who all act in unison and do this one thing that was in news headlines recently.

Re: What happens when US economic data becomes unreliable

#237

Post by asdff »

kasey_junk wrote: post #221
asdff wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calculating unemployment seems like it is always going to be a challenge no matter how it is done. For example, the current system in the US does not track unemployed graduates, as they have not been laid off and are not filing for unemployment benefits.

That’s just not true. Most of the six unemployment numbers capture unemployed graduates but m3 the headline number certainly does.

How is this information collected? When I was looking for work after grad school I didn't report to anyone as such. The school had no idea whether or not I was actively looking. I was denied unemployment. I'm not sure what my info might have looked like on the IRS end if that is what is being abrogated.

Re: What happens when US economic data becomes unreliable

#238

Post by biztos »

culi wrote: post #62
mark_l_watson wrote: post #25

The phrase "when US data becomes unreliable" is misleading in one sense: for many years political manipulation of economic data has screwed things up. Calculation of unemployment and real debt has seldom matched the norms of most other western countries. Add military (often black budgets) spending without much oversight or accurate accounting. The wealthiest people in the USA are now in the mode of grabbing what they…

I agree. The super rich have been in "prepper" mode for a long time now https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prep... > They started out innocuously and predictably enough. Bitcoin or ethereum? Virtual reality or augmented reality? Who will get quantum computing first, China or Google? Eventually, they edged into their real topic of concern: New Zealand or Alaska? Which region would be less affected…

I really do wonder whether, should push come to shove, a Peter Thiel will really be better served in a small country like New Zealand that doesn't have many pushers & shovers at which to direct its ire, or back in the land of his first naturalization where they run the show.

As for Mark Zuckerberg escaping to his "virtual metaverse," well that's certainly in keeping with the overall seriousness of the Guardian.

Re: What happens when US economic data becomes unreliable

#239

Post by gcanyon »

culi wrote: post #62
mark_l_watson wrote: post #25

The phrase "when US data becomes unreliable" is misleading in one sense: for many years political manipulation of economic data has screwed things up. Calculation of unemployment and real debt has seldom matched the norms of most other western countries. Add military (often black budgets) spending without much oversight or accurate accounting. The wealthiest people in the USA are now in the mode of grabbing what they…

I agree. The super rich have been in "prepper" mode for a long time now https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prep... > They started out innocuously and predictably enough. Bitcoin or ethereum? Virtual reality or augmented reality? Who will get quantum computing first, China or Google? Eventually, they edged into their real topic of concern: New Zealand or Alaska? Which region would be less affected…

> Which region would be less affected by the coming climate crisis?

Do you have evidence that the ultra wealthy are actually taking this into account? Over a human timeframe every ultra wealthy person has access to plenty of “climate change safe“ locations, no particular advance planning is needed.

Re: What happens when US economic data becomes unreliable

#240

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

asdff wrote: post #212
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not following the file disclosures in particular detail; I haven't yet heard any disclosures from the files that are evidence of kompromat. What are you thinking of?

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/11/12/trump-jeffrey-epstein-ghisla...

OK, so hearsay from Epstein. Which could easily be reliable. And could also not be. Also unclear precisely what "dirty" means. So sure, it adds to the pile, but we're not there yet, IMO.
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