Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I'm glad the Anthropic fight is happening now

dwarkesh.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–237 of 237 posts

Re: I'm glad the Anthropic fight is happening now

#231

Post by piyh »

alecco wrote: post #162
piyh wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I find it suspicious how he came to prominence out of nowhere He was first funded by FTX

Holy rabbit hole. SBF was in Patel's previous podcast in July 2022 and FTX unraveled in November 2022. Hmm. https://www.dwarkesh.com/p/sbf > I flew to the Bahamas to interview Sam Bankman-Fried, the CEO of FTX! He talks about FTX’s plan to infiltrate traditional finance, giving $100m this year to AI + pandemic risk, scaling slowly + hiring A-players, and much more. And that was right in the middle of FTX being accuse…

I clipped the SBF Dwarkesh interview for the relevant portion where he asks about co-mingling of funds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYIbgUy0T8U

Re: I'm glad the Anthropic fight is happening now

#232

Post by keybored »

keybored wrote: post #230
linkregister wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At no point have any of your arguers said they approve of the crimes perpetrated by the United States government. You repeatedly talk past them while only tangentially addressing their points. Your comments assume bad faith and make liberal use of pejoratives. My recommendation is to self-reflect.

Pejoratives?

Note that singling out this part is not some tacit acceptance of the rest of that comment.

Re: I'm glad the Anthropic fight is happening now

#233

Post by ang_cire »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #72
pydry wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>AIs embedded with American cultural values, broadly, is probably better than having ones seeded with Xi Jinping thought. I'd really rather have a choice of both rather than be forced to accept "AI that downplays a 2 year old genocide" over "AI that covers up a 40 year massacre".

> rather have a choice of both You do. So do I. If American AI goes by the wayside, we cease to have that choice anymore.

That is also true if Chinese AI goes by the wayside, though. :P

Re: I'm glad the Anthropic fight is happening now

#234

Post by ang_cire »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #142
ang_cire wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a real benefit to having the American experiment prominent and continuing. The American 'experiment' is one long history of the US doing really horrible things, but giving ourselves a pass because we dress it up in the name of freedom and self-determination. If you ignore our slavery and the genocide of Native Americans, it's easy to paint China's slavery and genocide as evils that are unique somehow. The…

> real experiment of America is in seeing how self-deluded we can become How would you contrast the responses to the Tiananmen Square Massacre [1] and that of Pretti’s shooting? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests...

I think this is a meaningless question. Being allowed to discuss your atrocities versus not, but not having the choice to actually stop doing atrocities, is a strange point of pride. Being allowed to discuss our wars in the Middle East clearly doesn't prevent them. Being allowed to discuss our immoral and unconstitutional treatment of immigrants clearly isn't stopping it.

We are just as unwilling as a society forcefully to halt our governments' evils as China is their's. Our government is just as bloodthirsty and fascist as their's, regardless of whether you're allowed to point that out or not (also, Palantir is adding you to the database if you do, we just haven't found out what they're planning to do with the database yet).

Re: I'm glad the Anthropic fight is happening now

#235

Post by ang_cire »

kelnos wrote: post #111
ang_cire wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a real benefit to having the American experiment prominent and continuing. The American 'experiment' is one long history of the US doing really horrible things, but giving ourselves a pass because we dress it up in the name of freedom and self-determination. If you ignore our slavery and the genocide of Native Americans, it's easy to paint China's slavery and genocide as evils that are unique somehow. The…

The difference is that China's slavery and genocide is happening today, within its own borders. Is that true of the US? Is there state-sanctioned/supported slavery in the US? Is the US committing genocide within its own borders? Arguably not? This doesn't make the US perfect or wonderful. We've been politically and militarily supporting a genocide in Gaza, as a stark example. But "the US did slavery and genocide in t…

> Is there state-sanctioned/supported slavery in the US?

Thank you for proving my point about our propaganda. Yes, it absolutely is. Slave labor is explicitly allowed for prisoners, under the 13th Amendment's "Penal exception clause"[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_exception_clause

And that's not some unused vestigial thing, forced labor of prisoners (slavery) is endemic. [2]

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_Stat...

Many states make prison labor optional at least in principle (though some like Alabama have been proven to punish prisoners with e.g. solitary confinement to 'compel' them to work). Some (Red States, mostly) do not make it optional, and even don't pay prisoners:

> Arkansas possesses a concerning history of coercive and uncompensated prison work. Inmates, primarily Black, have been compelled to labor on extensive state prison farms, including the Cummins and Tucker Units, located on former slave estates.

> In fiscal year 2019, Arkansas' unpaid jail labor generated over $4.4 million in externally marketed agricultural products, alongside an extra $7.5 million designated for prison food services.[69] Eyewitness testimonies indicate that imprisoned laborers experienced severe mistreatment—disordered working environments, maltreatment, and insufficient safeguards—evoking parallels to historical slavery.[70]

Re: I'm glad the Anthropic fight is happening now

#236

Post by ang_cire »

scarecrowbob wrote: post #176
ang_cire wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1800 people detained at "alligator Alcatraz" had their records purged from ICE databases, and are completely unaccounted for. Literally disappeared, and the only people whose word we have they're alive are the same people who disappeared them. Yes, the Uyghur genocide and paramilitary suppression and settler-colonialism of Tibet and Xinjiang is horrific, and will (hopefully) be recognized in the future as a genocide…

I dunno, personally I think it's actively worse; for instance I've read enough WEB DuBois and similar to know that chattel slavery didn't end because of some "goodness" in the part of the government which still is ruling us. The same government that helped murder 2M folks in Iraq. The same gov that paid death squads to kill nuns in El Salvador. At least China isn't in a position to have to reckon with how deep white…

> At least China isn't in a position to have to reckon with how deep white supremacy runs in its culture.

Han Nationalism is rooted in racial supremacy.

It's explicitly been pushed as the People and the Culture being inseparable, and the Culture being superior. That is the same "don't say the ipso facto part" that white supremacy uses to whitewash its bigotry too:

"It's not 'white nationalism, it's Christian nationalism, but not like, all Christians, just the white ones, but it's totally definitely not white nationalism!"

I think it's instructive that all 3 superpowers of the 20th and 21st centuries (and certainly most that I can think of historically) have a history of racial supremacy and nationalism, and engaging in genocide.

I think you don't do the stuff that gets you to be a superpower without it. Hence, why I assert that ALL superpowers are immoral.

The only purpose in trying to argue for a hierarchy between them is to lessen the impermissibility of one. They are impermissible, period.

Re: I'm glad the Anthropic fight is happening now

#237

Post by keybored »

keybored wrote: post #230
linkregister wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At no point have any of your arguers said they approve of the crimes perpetrated by the United States government. You repeatedly talk past them while only tangentially addressing their points. Your comments assume bad faith and make liberal use of pejoratives. My recommendation is to self-reflect.

Pejoratives?

Crickets.
Post reply on HN