Mission statements and blog posts are meaningless. Cap tables steer behavior and simultaneously protect interests. Stop forming unions or opining on Hacker News. We need to find a way to get citizens on the cap table in a meaningful way (and not at the very, very, very, very end of the waterfall underneath debt holders, hedge funds, governments, preferred investors). We are building this world for us. As it stands, d…
In other words: democracy.
The changing goalposts of AGI and timelines
231–240 of 411 posts
Re: The changing goalposts of AGI and timelines
#232The reality is that current models are simply nowhere near AGI. Next token prediction has been pushed very far, and proven to have applicability far beyond the original domain it was designed for (reasoning models are an application I would not have predicted) but it is fundamentally not AGI. It has no real world model, no ability to learn in any but superficial ways, and without extensive scaffolding this is all ver…
Re: The changing goalposts of AGI and timelines
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
That definition is as I said: "something about which no conclusions can be drawn because the proposed definitions lack sufficient precision and completeness." "Highly autonomous systems" and "most economically valuable work" aren't precise enough to be useful. "Highly" implies that there is a continuum, so where does directed end and autonomy begin? "Most economically valuable work"... each word in that has wiggle ro…
It's a definition based on practical results. That's a good definition, because it doesn't require we already know the exact implementation. It doesn't require guessing , in a literal "put your money where your mouth is" way. If it can do things as good as or better than humans, then either the AI has a type of general intelligence or the human does not . Defining capabilities based on outcome rather than implementat…
Re: The changing goalposts of AGI and timelines
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you are overindexing on the integer value given in the parent post, rather than seeing the essence that LLMs in their current form only excel on tasks they have been specifically trained for. Karpathy himself has publicly stated that AGI itself is only possible with a new paradigm (that his group is working toward). He claims RHLF and attention models are near the end of their logarithmic curve. The concept o…
Personally I'm not even sold on the current paradigm being too limited to produce AGI - there are still several OOMs worth of compute increase available, plus the algorithmic improvements have overall been accumulating faster than predicted. But even assuming that a major breakthrough is required, it seems ludicrous to me to go from that to a timeline of a decade or more. This isn't like fusion power research, where…
Re: The changing goalposts of AGI and timelines
#235AGI isn't going to happen within the next 30 years so this is moot. The actual researchers have said so many times. It's only the business people and laypeople whooping about AGI always being imminent. You cannot get real, actual AGI (the same ability to perform tasks as a human) without a continuous cycle of learning and deep memory, which LLMs cannot do. The best LLM "memory" is a search engine and document summari…
Given how many "fundamental" limitations of AI have been resolved within the past few years, I'm skeptical. Even if you're right, I am not sure that the limitations you identified matter all that much in practice. I think very few human engineers are working on problems which are so novel and unique that AIs cannot grasp them without additional reinforcement learning. > it will delete all the files in "X/" How many "…
Humans do it accidentally.
Re: The changing goalposts of AGI and timelines
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
> nothing actually passes the Turing test Says who? I had already found this study, published almost a year ago, saying that they do: https://arxiv.org/abs/2503.23674 There doesn't seem to be a super-rigorous definition of the Turing Test, but I don't think it's reasonable to require it to fool an expert whose life depends on the correct choice. It already seems to be decently able to fool a person of average intelli…
First of. The Turing test has a rigorous definition. Secondly, it has been debunked for almost half a century at this point by Searle’s Chinese room thought experiment. Thirdly, intelligence it self is a scientifically fraught term with ever changing meaning as we discover more and more “intelligent” behavior in nature (by animals and plants, and more). And to make matters worse, general intelligence is even worse, a…
Re: The changing goalposts of AGI and timelines
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
Given the mechanistic interpretability findings? I'm not sure how people still say shit like "no real world model" seriously.
People just overstate their understanding and knowledge, the usual human stuff. The same user has a comment in this thread that contains: 'If you actually know what models are doing under the hood to product output that...' Any one that tells you they know 'what models are dong under the hood' simply has no idea what they're talking about, and it's amazing how common this is.
None of that changes the concept that a model is just fundamentally very good at predicting what the next element in the stream should be, modulo injected randomness in the form of a temperature. Why does that actually end up looking like intelligence? Well, because we see the model’s ability to be plausibly correct over a wide range of topics and we get excited.
Btw, don’t take this reductionist approach as being synonymous with thinking these models aren’t incredibly useful and transformative for multiple industries. They’re a very big deal. But OpenAI shouldn’t give up because Opus 4.whatever is doing better on a bunch of benchmarks that are either saturated or in the training data, or have been RLHF’d to hell and back. This is not AGI.
Re: The changing goalposts of AGI and timelines
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you are overindexing on the integer value given in the parent post, rather than seeing the essence that LLMs in their current form only excel on tasks they have been specifically trained for. Karpathy himself has publicly stated that AGI itself is only possible with a new paradigm (that his group is working toward). He claims RHLF and attention models are near the end of their logarithmic curve. The concept o…
Personally I'm not even sold on the current paradigm being too limited to produce AGI - there are still several OOMs worth of compute increase available, plus the algorithmic improvements have overall been accumulating faster than predicted. But even assuming that a major breakthrough is required, it seems ludicrous to me to go from that to a timeline of a decade or more. This isn't like fusion power research, where…
Re: The changing goalposts of AGI and timelines
#239Re: The changing goalposts of AGI and timelines
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
That definition is as I said: "something about which no conclusions can be drawn because the proposed definitions lack sufficient precision and completeness." "Highly autonomous systems" and "most economically valuable work" aren't precise enough to be useful. "Highly" implies that there is a continuum, so where does directed end and autonomy begin? "Most economically valuable work"... each word in that has wiggle ro…
It's a definition based on practical results. That's a good definition, because it doesn't require we already know the exact implementation. It doesn't require guessing , in a literal "put your money where your mouth is" way. If it can do things as good as or better than humans, then either the AI has a type of general intelligence or the human does not . Defining capabilities based on outcome rather than implementat…