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The happiest I've ever been

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Re: The happiest I've ever been

#231

Post by AnthonyMouse »

nine_k wrote: post #184
arealaccount wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dont want to deal with kids Someone has to bring up the next generation, the no kids crowd want all the luxury of having the next generation without putting in the effort or spending the money.

I suppose that people who actively do not want to have kids should not have kids. Their hypothetical kids won't be happy and well-developed, but instead always feel that they are an undesired burden. Instead, people who like having kids should have more kids. This would proliferate a healthy culture that sees kids as a source of happiness, not a burden of misery taken out of necessity.

> Instead, people who like having kids should have more kids.

To make this work you need some kind of cross-subsidy (e.g. large child tax credit), because having a larger number of kids requires the means as well as the will and the people willing to do it aren't all billionaires.

But then we do essentially the opposite and drive up housing prices when larger families need more house. Higher housing prices are essentially a transfer from young and future families to retirees.

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#232

Post by lukan »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #228
Aurornis wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but pretty common in tech/upper middle class circles. It's common in some tech and upper middle class bubbles , but outside of some startups and a few VHCOL cities most of the 40+ people in tech I encounter have families. I think the mindset is most popular in internet bubbles like Reddit. Reddit went mainstream a decade ago and many people in their 30s and 40s grew up reading a lot of Reddit. Reddit cleaned up the…

Yeah, everyone I know who doesn’t have a child/not planning to have zero connection to Reddit or anything online. Tldr is, people find fulfillment without children easier nowadays. And as they watch other going child free or 1-2 children, they realize that life is possible nowadays.

"Tldr is, people find fulfillment without children easier nowadays"

Do they? Or have most just become too distorted to feel allright filling their emptiness with empty online debates and netflix?

I know people who are really happy without kids (and who will never have them), but the majority is rather miserably lonely when you look past the facade. And with many, there isn't even a facade.

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#233

Post by trick-or-treat »

arealaccount wrote: post #91
whaleidk wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who want to be childless usually champion the importance of building strong community through friends and neighbors, just because they don’t want kids doesn’t mean they don’t want to contribute to others’ happiness lol. People wanting FIRE is a lot more to do with the current economy and wealth of useless or harmful jobs than kids

> dont want to deal with kids Someone has to bring up the next generation, the no kids crowd want all the luxury of having the next generation without putting in the effort or spending the money.

[dead]

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#234

Post by idiotsecant »

jimbokun wrote: post #202
idiotsecant wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always funny how many people think that the only font of altruism is taking care of children who have your DNA , like that's some kind of selfless act. It is, in fact, the ultimate vanity of which humans are capable. Raising little variations of yourself might make you feel good, but if you think it's a unique path to a fulfilling life I suggest you are the one in the little bubble.

We are having fewer children and also seeing huge increases in loneliness and mental health problems.

Fortunately I have this magic tiger rock that keeps tigers away, I think it works for those things too.

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#235

Post by ozim »

__turbobrew__ wrote: post #176
cheema33 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're retiring later and later, working more per week That may be true. But, if somebody offered me a time machine to travel back in time and live at any point in history, would I take it? Hell no. > purchasing power is going down That is not a new thing. > quality of goods is going down Phones are better. Computers are better. Cars, planes, washing machines ... > life expectancy is decreasing On the whole, this is…

> But, if somebody offered me a time machine to travel back in time and live at any point in history, would I take it? Hell no. If given a choice I would rather be born in 1940s. 80 years of relative peace, prosperity, cheap education, cheap housing, only single parent needs to work, stronger community network, less overpopulation, better access to doctors, better wealth equality, and you get to partake in the first…

„only single parent needs to work”

I always wondered how much truth that was.

Turns out in 1950’s it was true for 65% of households. In 1960’s it dropped to 40% then in 70’s to 30% and in 90’s it landed at 20%.

So while you could support a family on a single income, it still was quite far from universally true and only most likely in the 50’s.

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#236

Post by littlexsparkee »

Aurornis wrote: post #103
whaleidk wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who want to be childless usually champion the importance of building strong community through friends and neighbors, just because they don’t want kids doesn’t mean they don’t want to contribute to others’ happiness lol. People wanting FIRE is a lot more to do with the current economy and wealth of useless or harmful jobs than kids

> People who want to be childless usually champion the importance of building strong community through friends and neighbors, This describes all of the childless people age 50 and older than I know. It does not describe the social media r/childfree mindset people I know at all. They have their bubble of friends they keep in touch with only when they feel like it but that's about it. There's a big difference between c…

I'm in my mid-30s with a partner that also doesn't want kids, saved probably 80% of my takehome for 5-6 years, and leanfire is within reach so it's doable. I don't need much, my main interests are cooking, learning, biking, etc. It's been a godsend as I developed a mobility issue and have to take time off to heal. I'm naturally frugal but had I not been intentional about planning for my future I would be in a bind. YMMV.

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#237

Post by littlexsparkee »

tock wrote: post #172
nvarsj wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s an entire generation of mostly childless adults who are shocked to find they enjoy contributing to others’ happiness. I have friends like this, their only purpose in life is to have no responsibilities, FIRE, and never give to anyone but themselves. Seems like a terribly depressing way to live but pretty common in tech/upper middle class circles.

Something about FIRE makes people have a visceral reaction. How DARE people not work like the rest of us. I get the purpose part if they were like teachers or doctors or something. Nope. SWE at Meta.

A lot of people can't comprehend trying to restrain their consumption either, they try to poke holes in your plans to assuage themselves that their lifeplan is the right one.

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#238

Post by nanopasta »

nvarsj wrote: post #40
bengale wrote: post #35

In the nicest possible way, this is basically the oldest lesson there is. You weren’t happy because you optimized your feelings or had the right opinions. You were happy because you stopped focusing on yourself and became responsible for other people. Six kids needed you, in the real world, every week. That kind of outward focus kills emptiness fast. Chasing happiness, moral righteousness, or political engagement jus…

There’s an entire generation of mostly childless adults who are shocked to find they enjoy contributing to others’ happiness. I have friends like this, their only purpose in life is to have no responsibilities, FIRE, and never give to anyone but themselves. Seems like a terribly depressing way to live but pretty common in tech/upper middle class circles.

This is a rather uni-dimensional and, might I say, judgemental view of the CF movement. People choosing to be child-free just want to have "no responsibilities, FIRE, and never give to anyone but themselves" - really? What about women finally taking agency and rejecting the belief that they must have kids to be fulfilled? You also seem to completely ignore the economic state of the world. The economic conditions we grow up in leave a psychological imprint and influence the choices we make, even as adults.

I have the utmost respect for people with kids, but I also think that an individual needs to be 100% ready to have one, and not just reproduce because it would somehow provide them with a purpose.

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#239

Post by littlexsparkee »

jimbokun wrote: post #197
paulryanrogers wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one chooses to be born. Once they are, they may find that procreation is impossible for them or just not something they'll do well or even want. None of these is necessarily depressing. We have no shortage of humans, so there's no need to try to shame the childless. Nor those who focus on themselves.

We are on course to have far more elderly people than young people. A global retirement community without even any grandkids to visit them strikes me as a depressing dystopian future.

I see less burden on earth's environment as a positive.

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#240

Post by wolvesechoes »

travisjungroth wrote: post #106
trgn wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it matter the world gets better when your neighbors do worse?

The other people in the world who aren’t your neighbors are also people.

But no one in their right mind cares more about other people in the world more than about himself and those closest to him.
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