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We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

theguardian.com

231–240 of 606 posts

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#231
post #194

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> seem evil for enforcing immigration law When people living otherwise-blameless lives begin getting accosted, beaten, or killed on suspicion of the legal equivalent of unpaid parking tickets , then yes, the new enforcement occurring is indeed "evil." When they start willfully breaking all sorts of other major laws and violating court-orders to enforce the minor law, yes, that's usually evil. When rationales last-use…

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Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#232
post #27

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This kind of analysis isn't much better. First, many countries are increasing funding substantially (e.g. [1]). Secondly, it's about more than funding. The US is also no longer safe for a great many of the scientists that would normally choose come to the US to work. And even for those that aren't too worried about ICE, scientists tend to be very liberal and value freedom and democracy a great deal. The US has sudden…

> scientists tend to be very liberal and value freedom and democracy a great deal What is the alternative? Canada and Europe don't even have free speech.

This is, de facto, not really a differentiator any more. Only one of the countries in question asks to see my social media profiles at the border to make sure I'm ideologically appropriate.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Idk, I think a much more effective way to destroy the US would be to send armed gangs through the streets and have them kidnap people from their houses at random. That would cause far more destruction than merely telling people you were doing that without actually doing it.

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Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#234

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> The US government is now more authoritarian than the Chinese government Nah we’re not playing this game. Try asking the CCP officials in person about Uyghur internment camps, or Tiananmen Square, and see if your family isn’t all arrested. Ask Olympian Alysa Liu how the CCP targeted her father to try to coerce her to skate for China.

Oh but this game is fun! I see your Uyghurs and raise the Falun Gong. A religious cult that is against pretty much anything liberal, but because they are a thorn in China's side they get US support and are oh-so-persecuted. They even have an anti-Communist acrobatics show called Shen Yun. Yes, that one, the one that spams your mailbox with flyers, and abuses kids.

I made the mistake of clicking through to your profile. This isn’t even the most nonsensical reply you’ve made today. That’s unfortunate.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#235
post #189

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>In software San Francisco is still the top for AI research What was the last thing that a major US Lab published? It's all trade secrets. Chinese labs are the only ones publishing results as they happen. The US is in the position it was for semiconductor manufacturing, first it was labs and open science. Then by the 80s fabs started costing millions and universities stopped being able to contribute and nothing got p…

>What was the last thing that a major US Lab published? It's all trade secrets. >Chinese labs are the only ones publishing results as they happen. Google published the transformer architecture. Facebook published llama.

>Google published the transformer architecture.

In 2017. Then sat on it for five years.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#237

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But related to this article, is China winning in terms of accumulating talent? I don’t think people all over Europe/Asia/Africa migrate to China. If they succeed, it’s purely with their own talent. The US still has that advantage even if it has less of it, unless I am mistaken.

> I don’t think people all over Europe/Asia/Africa migrate to China. Learning mandarin is the major blocker imo, more people would move if the language was easier.

Mandarin is weird, because I don't think it's that hard to speak at a passable level, mostly because the grammar is so simple. Many people are spooked by tones, but I think their importance for simple communication can be a little overstated.

But then, learning to read and write requires enormous additional effort. When I learned in Beijing, I'd spend a couple hours a day working on grammar/speaking/listening - and then like 6 hours a day of rote practice to get familiar with characters.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#238

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Canada is largely still homogeneous but still welcoming to immigrants and very close to the US. Rather than China totally changing cultures, I think it’s more likely that US-based companies will have large satellite offices in middle powers.

I'm Canadian and unless you're talking about the middle of Saskatchewan I don't know what you mean - no city over a hundred thousand here is homogenous.

I have been in small towns in the Maritimes where people looked shocked to see an Indian immigrant with me, probably for the first time ever. I meant more in relation to the US, though, which is a much more diverse country.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But related to this article, is China winning in terms of accumulating talent? I don’t think people all over Europe/Asia/Africa migrate to China. If they succeed, it’s purely with their own talent. The US still has that advantage even if it has less of it, unless I am mistaken.

China is trying. Around the time the US announced restrictions on the H-1B visa, China announced the K visa for attracting immigrants [1]. At this point in time, I don't think people are lining up to get K visa to go live in China. But if the current trajectory continues in the US, who knows how things will be in 5 years? [1] https://www.china-briefing.com/news/chinas-entry-exit-k-visa...

China has a global reputational problem that will take decades to fix.

The US has a global reputational advantage that will take decades to fall behind China, regardless of what any US administration does.

Nobody sane is going to believe rhetoric claiming that the US is somehow worse than a country that keeps 1.5 million people in concentration camps, and where people work 70 hours per week, no matter how many times Reddit tells them so.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#240

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It's really not about this - it's that for decades we've been able to draw top global talent to the US. We've cut research funding so heavy that we can't even support post docs who are American citizens now. My friends are going to Europe, Canada, Hong Kong.

How important can that be? America’s only real competitor technologically is China. And they’ve had essentially no immigration of “top talent.”

China has 3X more people, and America has a relatively terrible education system, so they have to import talented people who were educated elsewhere.
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