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America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

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Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#231

Post by alistairSH »

everforward wrote: post #199
alistairSH wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not all that different than US Social Security. SS has a much lower required contribution/tax rate, but the overall scheme seems similar (lower than market returns, etc) and naming (despite SS actually being called a tax, many residents think of it as a required personal retirement savings account).

SS is different mostly in that you’re not really loaning money to the government. The money coming in today mostly goes right back out as payments. There’s also an upper limit on SS taxable income. I forget what it is, but basically the entirety of the top quintile isn’t paying SS on their entire income. I want to say it’s like 90k, but it’s been a while since I looked.

SS is forced to invest unspent funds in T-bonds... That's sort of a loan to Uncle Sam.

And yeah, income over $185k isn't taxed by SS (silly law - fixing that would mostly fix the fund depletion that's likely to happen right about the time I retire).

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#232

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

Retric wrote: post #226
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again like I have been saying, good insurance is predicated on the open market and ACA being around and not being killed by Republicans. Even if they don’t outright kill it, they are trying to put in a “death spiral” where only sick people use it and insurance companies don’t want to participate. LTC not discriminating against pre-existing conditions is also post ACA.

In a hypothetical universe with different laws people would make different decisions, like abandoning the US. But you’re asking about medical conditions which rarely apply and laws that don’t exist. That’s not a failing of FIRE for the vast majority of people. Further FIRE doesn’t mean crap if you get something serious and die at 23, that’s just the reality of human existence.

People didn’t abandoned the US before the ACA was the law in 2011-2012. And if there were an influx of US citizens to foreign countries, I can guarantee you other countries wouldn’t be as welcoming.

There are plenty of conditions where the difference between life and death is being able to get health care

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#233

Post by Retric »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #232
Retric wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a hypothetical universe with different laws people would make different decisions, like abandoning the US. But you’re asking about medical conditions which rarely apply and laws that don’t exist. That’s not a failing of FIRE for the vast majority of people. Further FIRE doesn’t mean crap if you get something serious and die at 23, that’s just the reality of human existence.

People didn’t abandoned the US before the ACA was the law in 2011-2012. And if there were an influx of US citizens to foreign countries, I can guarantee you other countries wouldn’t be as welcoming. There are plenty of conditions where the difference between life and death is being able to get health care

Some did. The US expat community has been quite large for decades.

Most people didn’t do FIRE style early retirement while dealing with pre existing medical conditions. There however was plenty of expats pre ACA who very much left the country for early retirement.

US healthcare is ruinously expensive but on average it’s not particularly good if you’re in the income bracket where 1/4 million over a few years is a serious issue.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#234

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #222
aprdm wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Live frugally" , "FIRE" , "work in tech" All incompatible with 99% of the upper class, neither do they want to eat ramen to retire early. You're also one medical disaster away from being "very very wrong"

I know several people with normie jobs (not tech related or government) and normie lifestyles that saved up enough money to never need to work again by 50 while still maintaining their lifestyle. Most still work because they have no idea what to do with their time even though they don’t need to work anymore. You can easily derive that this is possible from the median household finance statistics published by BLS, nev…

No one is doubting that it is possible to save enough to retire by the time you’re 50 - as long as the ACA and the open market is viable.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#235

Post by foxyv »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #230
foxyv wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is really easy to "Fuck it up" when greedy assholes jack up the price of necessities like food, shelter, and medical care. 66% of bankruptcies are due to medical costs. We should just socialize necessities like food, shelter, and medical care so there is no chance of "Fucking it up." That would cover the possibility of disability as well. It sounds to me like we have built a system to exploit people as much as pos…

Yes let’s have “5 Year Plans” with centralized control instead of the free market, what could possibly go wrong? If only we had a large country that tried that and failed miserably to see what could go wrong.

Or, hear me out, we could socialize health care and tax the rich rapists that are currently running the country to end poverty in the richest country in the world.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#236

Post by krapp »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #230
foxyv wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is really easy to "Fuck it up" when greedy assholes jack up the price of necessities like food, shelter, and medical care. 66% of bankruptcies are due to medical costs. We should just socialize necessities like food, shelter, and medical care so there is no chance of "Fucking it up." That would cover the possibility of disability as well. It sounds to me like we have built a system to exploit people as much as pos…

Yes let’s have “5 Year Plans” with centralized control instead of the free market, what could possibly go wrong? If only we had a large country that tried that and failed miserably to see what could go wrong.

We don't have the free market. We've never had the free market. Every economy has always been under some degree of regulation and centralized control simply by virtue of existing within the context of a society and government that enforces laws and levies taxes.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#237

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #21

I had the privilege of getting a working gig in Singapore for a small AI startup: such a well run country! There is a sense of community for helping by employing people who need jobs, the police were friendly and I felt very safe there (I like to take long walks either early in the morning or late at night and I felt very secure.) Amazing what the people and government have achieved since the end of WW2. 100% respect…

I worked with a guy from sg. He gave me tips for when I went to visit. He hooked me up with a family member that showed me the backend a bit.

The country effectively runs on a slave class. You must drive a new vehicle under 5 years old, and the license just to buy a car was $90,000 or so. This means an entire class of people that will be taking the bus to do your laundry and clean your house for the rest of their lives and likely their kids lives.

The guy took me around to construction sites. The Indonesian and Malaysian workers were some of the most brave or stupid workers I’ve ever seen. I saw a guy install a window in a three story building by effectively free climbing from the outside half a flight up starting on the third floor, from the outside of the building. No harness, no ropes, just him out there hanging and pushing against a nook with his work boots. The SG contractor had helmet, hi-vis, steel toed, carhart, radio, clipboards etc.

Singapore is an amazing place. It’s like, a rorschach test kind of. Like everyone sees something different there.

I noticed things that trip. However… I was able to enjoy the botanical gardens and Marina Bay Sands rooftop like the other tourists… fond memories, but they have a backdrop that reality is only thinly hidden there.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#238

Post by ggm »

InkCanon wrote: post #12

Singapore's economic policies are complicated and often misdirecting. I'll break down the misconceptions. The primary purpose of CPF is not a pension scheme. It is structured as a massive forced bond purchase scheme by citizens. Financially what happens is the 37% of citizen income buys a long term bond (till retirement age, on average decades) at rock bottom interest rates (it's pegged to the overnight rate or a min…

Like Dubai, many of the migrant workers are ineligible for post retirement life in Singapore and so despite any mandatory savings will not represent any kind of burden on the state compared to delivery of health and housing and care costs.

So they are functionally productive and net positive to any scheme about post work funding for the community.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#239

Post by kelvinjps10 »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #180
kelvinjps10 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://mrmoneymustache.com/blog/ Read this story and more in the fire community, it's not impossible

Does that answer the question about what happens when the ACA is gutted and you can’t get insurance at any price with a pre-existing condition? That happened to me right before the ACA went into affect. I was engaged to my now wife and we moved our marriage up early so I could get on her insurance.

https://mrmoneymustache.com/2020/11/09/direct-primary-care/

https://mrmoneymustache.com/2017/11/05/when-your-shitty-heal... Regarding ACA >My family’s monthly health insurance premium, which had already more than doubled in the last few years to $674 per month, was going up a further 44% for the coming year. For no good reason, other than perhaps the the current government’s attempts to kill off the Affordable Care Act. (By cutting various parts of the structure, the insurance market becomes less stable and predictable, and thus more expensive).

Also besides that there is also the solution of barista fire that's working part time just to get insurance. https://www.reddit.com/r/baristafire/

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#240

Post by telotortium »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #84
everforward wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it sounds like a tax structured in a strange way so it doesn't obviously read as a tax. It's essentially a forced loan to the government at subpar rates. The "tax" is the delta between what the government pays out for the bonds vs what a bond of equivalent risk in the free market would have paid. The magnitude of the investment also probably makes it impractical for anyone but the very wealthy to retire before…

It’s almost impossible for an upper middle class couple to retire in the US before their 65 unless they have some type of government provided or private company provided health insurance like teachers, police officers, military etc. It’s about $25K a year for a decent plan which is doable. But you have to hope that Republicans - and yes this is a political issue - don’t successfully kill the ACA and make it impossibl…

For curiosity's sake, what exactly do you think Republicans will do to "kill the ACA"? I doubt they're going to introduce a bill that revokes the ACA in its entirety. They killed the mandate almost a decade ago and the marketplace healthcare plans have continued to limp along, depending on the state. What's next?
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