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How far back in time can you understand English?

deadlanguagesociety.com

231–240 of 432 posts

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it helped me to read it out loud in a pirate voice.

Fun fact: stereotypical "pirate speech" is actually a relic of the English West Country dialect.

Not so much a relic as it was West County actor Robert Newton putting on an exaggerated accent in his depections of Long John Silver and Blackbeard in several films of the 1950s. His depictions were extremely influential on later pirates in film.

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#232

Should be "how far back in time can you read English?" The language itself is what is spoken and the writing, while obviously related, is its own issue. Spelling is conventional and spelling and alphabet changes don't necessarily correspond to anything meaningful in the spoken language; meanwhile there can be large changes in pronunciation and comprehensibility that are masked by an orthography that doesn't reflect t…

I use a screen reader and in managed quite well until 1200. That said: phonetic spelling now. We have spent 500 years turning English into something closer to Egyptian hieroglyphs than a language with an alphabet.

I'm a bit confused by what you mean by that, unless you're talking about emoji, but those weren't around 500 years ago.

Do you mean that since English isn't phonetically spelled, that which we call the alphabet is rather arbitrary?

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a screen reader and in managed quite well until 1200. That said: phonetic spelling now. We have spent 500 years turning English into something closer to Egyptian hieroglyphs than a language with an alphabet.

I'm a bit confused by what you mean by that, unless you're talking about emoji, but those weren't around 500 years ago. Do you mean that since English isn't phonetically spelled, that which we call the alphabet is rather arbitrary?

I think he means the latter. This makes learning the spelling harder because you have to learn each word individually, as you would have with hieroglyphs, as opposed spelling it out based on phonemes (that you would have learned from learning how words sound when spoken) and a limited alphabet.

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#234
post #228
post #15

If you want to improve your score, the blog author (Dr. Colin Gorrie) has just the thing: a book which will teach you Old English by means of a story about a talking bear . Here's how it works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZhlWdVvZfw . Your dream of learning Old English has never been closer: get Ōsweald Bera https://colingorrie.com/books/osweald-bera/ today.

Shame that it only seems to be available in physical form and only from the US. The price is already quite high and with postage to the UK it adds up to be quite expensive.

My friend from the UK bought it and it got sent from somewhere locakly. I am in NZ and mine was sent from AU. So I think you should be covered.

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#235

One of the absolute treasures of our time is The History of English Podcast. 186 episodes in, and he's just gotten past Shakespeare. The first 30 or so episodes might run a little slow for you for lack of written sources, but it really does pick up and has been hours of joy. https://historyofenglishpodcast.com/ For the prurient, Chaucer's Vulgar Tongue is a great place to dip a toe into it: https://historyofenglishpo…

I’m just ahead of you on episode 200! Just getting into the rise of printing in English.

I absolutely agree. This has become my comfort podcast when I just want to decompress.

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#236

1400 seems fine except for the one big hurdle being "Þ", which I feel like I'd seen at some point but did not recall. ("ȝ" is useful but that's somewhat easier to guess and not too critical. "ſ" is also easy to guess and I'd seen it before.) 1300 is noticeably harder and needs some iterative refinement, but once you rewrite it, it's surprisingly not too bad: > Then after much time spoke the master, his words were col…

Ravens, adread (filled with dread), condemn you to your death (I think just an archaic usage of deem), beweep (none will weep for you, I think). I also hit a pretty hard wall at 1200.

1200 was my wall too.

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#237

One of the absolute treasures of our time is The History of English Podcast. 186 episodes in, and he's just gotten past Shakespeare. The first 30 or so episodes might run a little slow for you for lack of written sources, but it really does pick up and has been hours of joy. https://historyofenglishpodcast.com/ For the prurient, Chaucer's Vulgar Tongue is a great place to dip a toe into it: https://historyofenglishpo…

I’m just ahead of you on episode 200! Just getting into the rise of printing in English. I absolutely agree. This has become my comfort podcast when I just want to decompress.

200? The website only goes to 187. Do I need to get on Patreon or something?

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m just ahead of you on episode 200! Just getting into the rise of printing in English. I absolutely agree. This has become my comfort podcast when I just want to decompress.

200? The website only goes to 187. Do I need to get on Patreon or something?

I think there’s a numbering difference. He went back and re did a bunch of earlier ones.

I’m listening on Apple Podcasts. Season 5 episode 5 “Printin and Perkin” if it helps.

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#239
post #37

Should be "how far back in time can you read English?" The language itself is what is spoken and the writing, while obviously related, is its own issue. Spelling is conventional and spelling and alphabet changes don't necessarily correspond to anything meaningful in the spoken language; meanwhile there can be large changes in pronunciation and comprehensibility that are masked by an orthography that doesn't reflect t…

Indeed, I remember being in Oxford in the 90s and an older man approached me and spoke to me in English and I couldn’t understand a word he said. My ex-wife, who’s an ESL speaker who speaks fluently and without an accent has trouble with English accents in general. Similarly, in Spanish, I find it’s generally easier for me to understand Spanish speakers than Mexican speakers even though I learned Mexican Spanish in s…

> The Spanish I understand most easily is the heavily accented Spanish of non-native Spanish speakers.

Are you sure this is because of their accent? I have the same experience with French (the non-native speakers are easier to understand), but I always thought that was because they use fewer and simpler words.

Re: How far back in time can you understand English?

#240

Should be "how far back in time can you read English?" The language itself is what is spoken and the writing, while obviously related, is its own issue. Spelling is conventional and spelling and alphabet changes don't necessarily correspond to anything meaningful in the spoken language; meanwhile there can be large changes in pronunciation and comprehensibility that are masked by an orthography that doesn't reflect t…

I use a screen reader and in managed quite well until 1200. That said: phonetic spelling now. We have spent 500 years turning English into something closer to Egyptian hieroglyphs than a language with an alphabet.

Phonetic spelling would perhaps make the language easier to learn for native speakers, but it would make it harder to learn for foreigners, at least those of us who come from Europe. Most words in written English resemble words in Germanic or Romance languages. If English was spelled phonetically, the resemblance would be significantly smaller.

People often say that the English spelling is weird or illogical. As a non-native speaker, I disagree. The English spelling makes perfect sense. It’s the English pronunciation which is really strange and inconsistent.

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