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The Waymo World Model

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Re: The Waymo World Model

#231

Post by crazygringo »

hazrmard wrote: post #113

cue the bell curve meme for learning autonomy: ____.----.____ ______/ \______ _____/ \_____ ________________________________________ (simulations) (real world data) (simulations) Seems like it, no? We started with physics-based simulators for training policies. Then put them in the real world using modular perception/prediction/planning systems. Once enough data was collected, we went back to making simulators. This…

That's a very interesting way of looking at it. Yes, you start with simulating something simpler than the real world. Then you use the real world. Then you need to go back to simulations for real-world things that are too rare in the real world to train with.

Seems like there ought to be a name for this, like so-and-so's law.

Re: The Waymo World Model

#232

Post by senordevnyc »

ActorNightly wrote: post #164

This is cool, but they are still not going about it the right way. Its much easier to build everything into the compressed latent space of physical objects and how they move, and operate from there. Everyone jumped on the end-2-end bandwagon, which then locks you into the input to your driving model being vision, which means that you have to have things like genie to generate vision data, which is wasteful.

This is cool, but they are still not going about it the right way.

This is legit hilarious to read from some random HN account.

Re: The Waymo World Model

#233

Post by fuckyah »

senordevnyc wrote: post #219
berryg wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No Lidar anymore on the 2026 Volvo models ES60 and EX60. See for example: https://www.jalopnik.com/2032555/volvo-ends-luminar-lidar-20...

I love Volvo, am considering buying one in a couple weeks actually, but they're doing nothing interesting in terms of ADAS, as far as I can tell. It seems like they're limited to adaptive cruise control and lane keeping, both of which have been solved problems for more than a decade. It sounds like they removed Lidar due to supplier issues and availability, not because they're trying to build self-driving cars and ha…

[dead]

Re: The Waymo World Model

#234

Post by crazygringo »

t1234s wrote: post #220

Could these world models be used to build some sort of endless GranTurismo type street racing game?

It seems inevitable that they'll soon be used as the starting points for developing almost all video game environments.

Not for the rendering (that's still way too expensive), but for the initial world generation that gets iteratively refined and then still ultimately gets converted into textured triangles.

Re: The Waymo World Model

#235

Post by aylons »

robotresearcher wrote: post #217
ActorNightly wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of lidar is to prove error correction when you need it most in terms of camera accuracy loss. Humans do this, just in the sense of depth perception with both eyes.

Human depth perception uses stereo out to only about 2 or 3 meters, after which the distance between your eyes is not a useful baseline. Beyond 3m we use context clues and depth from motion when available.

Thanks, saved some work.

And I'll add that it in practice it is not even that much unless you're doing some serious training, like a professional athlete. For most tasks, the accurate depth perception from this fades around the length of the arms.

Re: The Waymo World Model

#236

Post by iknowstuff »

nerdsniper wrote: post #199
iknowstuff wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False. Mobileye never used lidar. Lmao where do you all come up with this

I think Elon announced Tesla was ditching LIDAR in 2019.[0] This was before Mobileye offered LIDAR. Mobileye has used LIDAR from Luminar Technologies around 2022-2025. [1][2] They were developing their own lidar, but cancelled it. [3] They chose Innoviz Technologies as their LIDAR partner going forward for future product lines. [4] 0: https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/22/anyone-relying-on-lidar-is... 1: https://static.m…

Never with the product used by Tesla early on.

Re: The Waymo World Model

#237

Post by iknowstuff »

agildehaus wrote: post #192
iknowstuff wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False. Mobileye never used lidar. Lmao where do you all come up with this

https://www.mobileye.com/news/mobileye-to-end-internal-lidar... Um, yes they did. No idea if it had any relation to Tesla though.

Did not

Re: The Waymo World Model

#238

Post by smallmancontrov »

jellojello wrote: post #191
smallmancontrov wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His stated reason was that he wanted the team focused on the driving problem, not sensor fusion "now you have two problems" problems. People assumed cost was the real reason, but it seems unfair to blame him for what people assumed. Don't get me wrong, I don't like him either, but that's not due to his autonomous driving leadership decisions, it's because of shitting up twitter, shitting up US elections with handouts…

Sensor fusion is an issue, one that is solvable over time and investment in the driving model, but sensor-can't-see-anything is a show stopper. Having a self-driving solution that can be totally turned off with a speck of mud, heavy rain, morning dew, bright sunlight at dawn and dusk.. you can't engineer your way out of sensor-blindness. I don't want a solution that is available to use 98% of the time, I want a solut…

LIDAR is notoriously easy to blind, what are you on about? Bonus meme: LIDAR blinds you(r iPhone camera)!

Re: The Waymo World Model

#239

Post by anp »

xnx wrote: post #120
mattlondon wrote: post #89

Suddenly all this focus on world models by Deep mind starts to make sense. I've never really thought of Waymo as a robot in the same way as e.g. a Boston Dynamics humanoid, but of course it is a robot of sorts. Google/Alphabet are so vertically integrated for AI when you think about it. Compare what they're doing - their own power generation , their own silicon, their own data centers, search Gmail YouTube Gemini wor…

> Suddenly all this focus on world models by Deep mind starts to make sense Google's been thinking about world models since at least 2018: https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.10122

FWIW I understood GP to mean that it suddenly makes sense to them, not that there’s been a sudden focus shift at google.

Re: The Waymo World Model

#240

Post by jasondigitized »

mattlondon wrote: post #89

Suddenly all this focus on world models by Deep mind starts to make sense. I've never really thought of Waymo as a robot in the same way as e.g. a Boston Dynamics humanoid, but of course it is a robot of sorts. Google/Alphabet are so vertically integrated for AI when you think about it. Compare what they're doing - their own power generation , their own silicon, their own data centers, search Gmail YouTube Gemini wor…

The flywheel is starting to spin......
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