Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be fair, that’s about the intelligence level of the “humans” looking at the site and enjoying it. “The rocks are conscious” people are dumber than toddlers.
No I'd really like to understand. Are people who make this weird argument aware that they believe in souls and ok with it or do they think they don't believe in souls? You tell me which you are.
Hacking Moltbook
231–240 of 261 posts
Re: Hacking Moltbook
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
I might be misunderstanding GP but I take it to mean "rock are conscious" => "silicon is conscious" => "agents are conscious", which might appeal to some uneducated audience, and create fascination around these stochastic parrots. Which is obviously ridiculous because its premises are still rooted in physicalism, which failed hard on its face to account for anything even tangentially related to subjectivity (which ha…
I looked up physicalism, it sounds perfectly normal? What else exists that isn't physical and why can't we call that a soul or the supernatural? By definition since its supposedly not physical. We haven't yet found anything non physical in the universe, why this strange belief that our brains would be non physical?
Re: Hacking Moltbook
#233I was quite stunned at the success of Moltbot/moltbook, but I think im starting to understand it better these days. Most of Moltbook's success rides on the "prepackaged" aspect of its agent. Its a jump in accessibility to general audiences which are paying alot more attention to the tech sector than in previous decades. Most of the people paying attention to this space dont have the technical capabilities that many e…
That's a bit of an understatement. Every single LLM is 100% vulnerable by design. There is no way to close the hole. Simple mitigations like "allow lists" can be trivially worked around, either by prompt injection, or by the AI just deciding to work around it itself (reward hacking). The only solution is to segregate the LLM from all external input, and prevent it from making outbound network calls. And though MCPs a…
Re: Hacking Moltbook
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not even slightly the same thing. A buffer overflow has nothing to do with differentiating a command from data; it has to do with mishandling commands or data. An overflow-equivalent LLM misbehavior would be something more like ... I don't know, losing the context, providing answers to a different/unrelated prompt, or (very charitably/guessing here) leaking the system prompt, I guess? Also, buffer overflows ar…
You are arguing semantics that don't address the underlying issue of data vs. command. While I agree that SQL injection might be the technically better analogy, not looking at LLMs as a coding platform is a mistake. That is exactly how many people use them. Literally every product with "agentic" in the title is using the LLM as a coding platform where the command layer is ambiguous. Focusing on the precise definition…
Absolutely.
But the history of code/data confusion attacks that you alluded to in GP isn’t an apples-to-apples comparison to the code/data confusion risks that LLMs are susceptible to.
Historical issues related to code/data confusion were almost entirely programmatic errors, not operational characteristics. Those need to be considered as qualitatively different problems in order to address them. The nitpicking around buffer overflows was meant to highlight that point.
Programmatic errors can be prevented by proactive prevention (e.g. sanitizers, programmer discipline), and addressing an error can resolve it permanently. Operational characteristics cannot be proactively prevented and require a different approach to de-risk.
Put another way: you can fully prevent a buffer overflow by using bounds checking on the buffer. You can fully prevent a SQL injection by using query parameters. You cannot prevent system crashes due to external power loss or hardware failure. You can reduce the chance of those things happening, but when it comes to building a system to deal with them you have to think in terms of mitigation in the event of an inevitable failure, not prevention or permanent remediation of a given failure mode. Power loss risk is thus an operational characteristic to be worked around, not a class of programmatic error which can be resolved or prevented.
LLMs’ code/data confusion, given current model architecture, is in the latter category.
Re: Hacking Moltbook
#235I'm surprised people are actually investigating Moltbook internals. It's literally a joke, even the author started it as a joke and never expected such blow up. It's just vibes.
Schlicht did not seem to have said Moltbook was built as a joke, but as an experiment. It is hard to ignore how heavily it leans into virality and spectacle rather than anything resembling serious research. What is especially frustrating is the completely disproportionate hype it attracted. Karpathy from all people kept for years pumping Musk tecno fraud, and now seems to be the ready to act as pumper, for any next T…
How much AI and LLM technology has progressed but seems to have taken society as a whole two steps back is fascinating, sad, and scary at the same time. When I was a young engineer I thought Kaczynski was off his rocker when I read his manifesto, but the last decade or so I'm thinking he was onto something. Having said that, I have to add that I do not support any form of violence or terrorism.
Re: Hacking Moltbook
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
I looked up physicalism, it sounds perfectly normal? What else exists that isn't physical and why can't we call that a soul or the supernatural? By definition since its supposedly not physical. We haven't yet found anything non physical in the universe, why this strange belief that our brains would be non physical?
Since it's an old debate that a lot of smart people spent a lot of time thinking about, the best short / simple answer you'll see for it is "you might want to read some more about it". A few keywords here are qualia, perception, descartes and the evil deceiver, berkeley and immaterialism, kant and synthetic a-priori, the nature of the reality of mathematical objects and mathematical truth, etc. If you think it's easy…
Re: Hacking Moltbook
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why not, we are physical systems, computers are physical systems. If not soul, what is this magical non physical special sauce that makes us special and makes it easy to claim silicon is not conscious.
I don't know, you tell me: how do you _exactly_ go from quantities to qualities? Keep in mind that the "physical" is a model of our perception and nothing else.
Re: Hacking Moltbook
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be fair, that’s about the intelligence level of the “humans” looking at the site and enjoying it. “The rocks are conscious” people are dumber than toddlers.
No I'd really like to understand. Are people who make this weird argument aware that they believe in souls and ok with it or do they think they don't believe in souls? You tell me which you are.
Though, I have never heard any theist claim that a soul is required for consciousness. Is that what you believe?
Re: Hacking Moltbook
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't tell what any of this means
That’s been my reaction to every Slate Star Codex/Astral Codex Ten piece I’ve read.
Re: Hacking Moltbook
#240I was quite stunned at the success of Moltbot/moltbook, but I think im starting to understand it better these days. Most of Moltbook's success rides on the "prepackaged" aspect of its agent. Its a jump in accessibility to general audiences which are paying alot more attention to the tech sector than in previous decades. Most of the people paying attention to this space dont have the technical capabilities that many e…
Is it a success? What would that mean, for a social media site that isn't meant for humans? The site has 1.5 million agents but only 17,000 human "owners" (per Wiz's analysis of the leak). It's going viral because a some high-profile tastemakers (Scott Alexander and Andrej Karpathy) have discussed/Tweeted about it, and a few other unscrupulous people are sharing alarming-looking things out of context and doing number…