I don't know how many others here have a CoPilot+ PC but the NPU on it is basically useless. There isn't any meaningful feature I get by having that NPU. They are far too limited to ever do any meaningful local LLM inference, image processing or generation. It handles stuff like video chat background blurring, but users' PC's have been doing that for years now without an NPU.
I'd love to see a thorough breakdown of what these local NPUs can really do. I've had friends ask me about this (as the resident computer expert) and I really have no idea. Everything I see advertised for (blurring, speech to text, etc...) are all things that I never felt like my non-NPU machine struggled with. Is there a single remotely killer application for local client NPUs?
Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs
231–240 of 418 posts
Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs
#232I don't know how many others here have a CoPilot+ PC but the NPU on it is basically useless. There isn't any meaningful feature I get by having that NPU. They are far too limited to ever do any meaningful local LLM inference, image processing or generation. It handles stuff like video chat background blurring, but users' PC's have been doing that for years now without an NPU.
To be fair, SIMD made a massive difference for early multimedia PCs for things like music playback, gaming, and composited UIs.
Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
People will want what LLMs can do they just don't want "AI". I think having it pervade products in a much more subtle way is the future though. For example, if you close a youtube browser tab with a comment half written it will pop up an `alert("You will lose your comment if you close this window")`. It does this if the comment is a 2 page essay or "asdfasdf". Ideally the alert would only happen if the comment seemed…
> Ideally the alert would only happen if the comment seemed important but it would readily discard short or nonsensical input. That is really difficult to do in traditional software but is something an LLM could do with low effort. I read this post yesterday and this specific example kept coming back to me because something about it just didn't sit right. And I finally figured it out: Glancing at the alert box (or th…
Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tbh it's been the same in Windows PCs since forever. Like MMX in the Pentium 1 days - was marketed as basically essential for anything "multimedia" but provided somewhat between no and minimal speedup (v little software was compiled for it). It's quite similar with Apple's neural engine, which afiak is used very little for LLMs, even for coreML. I know I don't think I ever saw it being used in asitop. And I'm sure wh…
I have to disagree with you about MMX. It's possible a lot of software didn't target it explicitly but on Windows MMX was very widely used as it was integrated into DirectX, ffmpeg, GDI, the initial MP3 libraries (l3codeca which was used by Winamp and other popular MP3 players) and the popular DIVX video codec.
Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd love to see a thorough breakdown of what these local NPUs can really do. I've had friends ask me about this (as the resident computer expert) and I really have no idea. Everything I see advertised for (blurring, speech to text, etc...) are all things that I never felt like my non-NPU machine struggled with. Is there a single remotely killer application for local client NPUs?
"WHAT IS MY PURPOSE?" "You multiply matrices of INT8s." "OH... MY... GOD" NPUs really just accelerate low-precision matmuls. A lot of them are based on systolic arrays, which are like a configurable pipeline through which data is "pumped" rather than a general purpose CPU or GPU with random memory access. So they're a bit like the "synergistic" processors in the Cell, in the respect that they accelerate some operatio…
Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs
#236They still ship their laptops with the Copilot key. Once that is removed then their statement will follow their actions.
I'd be surprised if Microsoft would sell them Windows licenses or would work with them on drivers if they don't put the Copilot key on the keyboard.
Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tbh it's been the same in Windows PCs since forever. Like MMX in the Pentium 1 days - was marketed as basically essential for anything "multimedia" but provided somewhat between no and minimal speedup (v little software was compiled for it). It's quite similar with Apple's neural engine, which afiak is used very little for LLMs, even for coreML. I know I don't think I ever saw it being used in asitop. And I'm sure wh…
Apple's neural engine is used a lot by the non-LLM ML tasks all over the system like facial recognition in photos and the like. The point of it isn't to be some beefy AI co-processor but to be a low-power accelerator for background ML workloads. The same workloads could use the GPU but it's more general purpose and thus uses more power for the same task. The same reason macOS uses hardware acceleration for video code…
You still need a GPU regardless if you can do JPEG and h264 decode on the card - for games, animations, etc etc.
Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tbh it's been the same in Windows PCs since forever. Like MMX in the Pentium 1 days - was marketed as basically essential for anything "multimedia" but provided somewhat between no and minimal speedup (v little software was compiled for it). It's quite similar with Apple's neural engine, which afiak is used very little for LLMs, even for coreML. I know I don't think I ever saw it being used in asitop. And I'm sure wh…
The silicon is sitting idle in the case of most laptop NPUs. In my experience, embedded NPUs are very efficient, so there's theoretically real gains to be made if the cores were actually used.
Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs
#239Protip, if you are considering a dell xps laptop, consider the dell precision laptop workstation instead which is the business version of the consumer level xps. It also looks like names are being changed, and the business laptops are going with a dell pro (essential/premium/plus/max) naming convention.
Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs
#240I don't know how many others here have a CoPilot+ PC but the NPU on it is basically useless. There isn't any meaningful feature I get by having that NPU. They are far too limited to ever do any meaningful local LLM inference, image processing or generation. It handles stuff like video chat background blurring, but users' PC's have been doing that for years now without an NPU.