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Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

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Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#231

Post by nsoonhui »

causal wrote: post #64

A lot of comments decrying new weapons tech, but I think drone defense tech is particularly critical right now and going to save a lot of lives. Put another way, I don't think we would be against new clothing that made bullets less effective, even if it remains terrible that such clothing is needed. Especially as AI becomes better and cheaper and suicide drones become more nimble and autonomous. If you have seen any…

Maybe Hi Tech weapon is impressive but that could lure us into false sense of security. Israel learnt the lesson the hard way in the October 7 attack.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#232

Post by breppp »

someNameIG wrote: post #111
condensedcrab wrote: post #2

From Rafael’s site: https://www.rafael.co.il/system/iron-beam/ 100kW laser is nothing to joke about, but seems a good application for anti drone tasks. Fiber lasers are pretty snazzy.

They say it's first operational system in it's class, but it seems very similar to the Australian Apollo system, with Apollo being able to go up to 150kW https://eos-aus.com/defence/high-energy-laser-weapon/apollo/

It's also similar to the British DragonFire and US HELIOS

I think the major difference here is that the Iron Beam is operational, as in finished trials, delivered to an armed force and actually was in active use in the previous war for more than a year

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#234

Post by karim79 »

8note wrote: post #201
myth_drannon wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Putin gives a nuke to Iranians then it's game over since Iranians don't care about MAD doctrine. Anyways the risk of the tech falling into Russia's hands is too high. Ukrainians have the smarts to develop it themselves now that it is proven as a viable tech.

iran has a religious rule against making nukes, to the same extent that it has religious decrees calling for an end to israel. iranians arent gonna nuke anyone without first toppling their religious government

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Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#235

Post by klipt »

noomer2 wrote: post #220
wat10000 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, why would they bother when there’s cheaper and easier ways to do it? A high tech laser system is great for shooting stuff down because it replaces missile systems that cost even more. If you want to cripple people, why would you use it instead of a cheap gun or baton? “It could be used to hurt people” doesn’t mean much. You at least need “it could be used to hurt people, and it’s better at it in at leas…

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Yet the pager attack did help wipe out most of the Hezbollah leadership and shortened the war overall.

Without it, Lebanon might be looking a lot more like Gaza right now.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#236

Post by nradov »

slfreference wrote: post #215
breppp wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then when that happens that might be morally objectionable. But probably like any other weapon that already exists, a rocket, missile or gun. While not everyday a new defense systems is invented that is targeted at statistical weapon that terrorizes civilians.

In Batman Begins, the villian just makes the drinking water toxic. With todays AI and Biotech, one can create a new bacteria or virus and cripple water supply of cities. I am sure a suitable trained AI can get more creative with such low cost attack vectors.

Nah. You can't just engineer some sort of pathogen which will survive water purification treatments, or grow and reproduce in pure water without any nutrients. Real life isn't like the movies.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#237

Post by klipt »

jmyeet wrote: post #85
elcritch wrote: post #70

Personally I think that defensive technology like this is fantastic. It means that innocent citizens will be protected from constant bombardment or thread of bombardment by cheap mass produced rockets or drones. Israeli civilians have faced bombardment by tens of thousands of rockets from Gaza for the last 20 years [1]. Outside the Middle East there's many areas threatened by combatants with similar cheap missiles. P…

Three thoughts: 1. Just to repeat myself from another comment on this thread, there is no such thing as a defensive weapon. Were it not for the various missile shields, the Israeli state wouldn't act with wanton abandon against its own citizens and its neighbours. All of the various war crimes and terror attacks are a direct consequence of the effectiveness of a "defensive" missile shield. Let me pose this question t…

> Were it not for the various missile shields, the Israeli state wouldn't act with wanton abandon against its own citizens and its neighbours. All of the various war crimes and terror attacks are a direct consequence of the effectiveness of a "defensive" missile shield.

I'm not sure that's true, before Iron Dome, Israel would respond to many rockets from Gaza by firing mortars back at where the rocket was launched from, often the roof of an apartment building or similar, causing civilian casualties.

After Iron Dome, a lot of rockets were simply intercepted and ignored, because there was no longer political pressure from Israelis seeing rockets land in their villages and wanting to hit back.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#239

Post by margalabargala »

cenamus wrote: post #48
cogman10 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quiet the power requirement. I wonder how long it has to focus on a drone to eliminate it. Like how long is this thing consuming 100kW?

Good question, probably depends a lot on how much energy actually makes it to the target some distance away. And then how much is actually absorbed. Probably depends more on the power density then, rather than total power? Can't imagine they get a very small spot at multiple km unless they use gigantic lenses or multiple independent laser focused on the same spot

I also wonder the extent to which the effectiveness is reduced by painting the projectile white or wrapping it in aluminum foil. Maybe 100kw is so large that it simply does not matter at that power level.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#240

Post by steve-atx-7600 »

breppp wrote: post #224
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It means that innocent citizens will be protected from constant bombardment or thread of bombardment by cheap mass produced rockets or drones One could also hope that e.g. Iran starts focusing its economy on the wellbeing of its people versus playing regional cop to America’s world police.

They have economic related riots starting as we speak so the progressive end result (a few riots down the line) might either be this or regime change

Riots are going to end predictably badly when those participating do not have guns. Just like a couple years ago other there. Probably a lesson here.
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