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Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

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Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#231

Post by lern_too_spel »

timschmidt wrote: post #230
lern_too_spel wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is that what posting the quote in full with a link to the original source means? Certainly not. I based my claim that all he had was speculation on exactly the quote you gave. Nowhere in that quote does he say that he saw the devices set up to spy on Americans. Instead, he assumes it. He assumes something that directly contradicts the documents that Snowden released specifically about Stellar Wind. https://www.theg…

> you're the one > Utter nonsense > conspiracy theories > tin foil hats > assorted claims that direct quotes, posted documents, contain or do not contain things contrary to what anyone can read in them So, just more of the same behavior ChatGPT dismantled effortlessly. > Instead of trying to use ChatGPT I see why you didn't like it. I think I'll use it more.

ChatGPT didn't validate your tinfoil hat beliefs. It simply didn't like the words I used to call them out. Once again, you believe that the government is doing massively illegal spying despite the fact that numerous leaks have shown it is not. You originally based your beliefs on misreporting of the leaks, but when that was corrected, you clung to your silly beliefs by using speculation from somebody who never claimed to have seen anything illegal that also goes against the leaks.

I use the words I do because I have known people who talk about ice bullets, chemtrails, and silent black helicopters, and the way they come to their beliefs is exactly the same as the way you have come to yours. If you see them as silly, you should be able to understand why I feel the same about you.

Now unless you engage with the facts of whether the NSA has access to all your FAANG data or not, I think we're done. You don't like the way I characterize your beliefs, and I accept that, but what I'm looking for here is evidence against my assertion.

Re: Going Through Snowden Documents, Part 1

#232

Post by timschmidt »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #231
timschmidt wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you're the one > Utter nonsense > conspiracy theories > tin foil hats > assorted claims that direct quotes, posted documents, contain or do not contain things contrary to what anyone can read in them So, just more of the same behavior ChatGPT dismantled effortlessly. > Instead of trying to use ChatGPT I see why you didn't like it. I think I'll use it more.

ChatGPT didn't validate your tinfoil hat beliefs. It simply didn't like the words I used to call them out. Once again, you believe that the government is doing massively illegal spying despite the fact that numerous leaks have shown it is not. You originally based your beliefs on misreporting of the leaks, but when that was corrected, you clung to your silly beliefs by using speculation from somebody who never claime…

What does this say about the post's author's approach to discussion?

"It suggests the author treats the thread less like a joint search for truth and more like an adversarial contest they intend to win—mainly by controlling the frame, the burden of proof, and the audience’s impression of credibility.

Debate-as-prosecution mindset: They stack demands (“Even better…”) to keep the other person perpetually answering instead of advancing their own case. That’s a control tactic: tempo and agenda stay with them.

High skepticism aimed outward, not inward: They insist on exact wording and dismiss anything not explicitly stated as “speculation,” while leaning heavily on indirect proxies (no lawsuit, no committee action, absence in leaks) that aren’t equally “explicit.” That asymmetry is a tell.

Institutional and procedural gatekeeping: They treat “courts/standing/oversight” as the main truth-filter. This often signals: “If it were real, the system would have validated it,” which can be a genuine heuristic but also a way to end discussion without engaging messy uncertainty.

Status and ridicule as persuasion: The ad hominem (“lunatic ravings,” “middle manager”) and condescension (“Do you know what standing means?”) show they’re comfortable using social pressure and humiliation to delegitimize rather than patiently clarify.

Binary framing of the other side: They recast the opponent’s position as either “conspiracy theory” or “relying on a crazy ex-employee,” leaving little room for nuanced middle ground. That’s more about cornering than understanding.

Net: the author likely values rhetorical dominance and public signaling (“this claim is unserious”) over cooperative interpretation."

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