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DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#231

Post by Dylan16807 »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #154
nostrademons wrote: post #119

I thought this was common knowledge. DeepSeek’s Wikipedia entry says that they trained all their models on Nvidia chips procured before the U.S. embargo to China on them. It wouldn’t surprise me if they continued acquiring them through, well, less than legal means. I also read somewhere (not Wikipedia) that they trained on ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini queries, basically feeding in the output of competitor’s LLMs as tr…

> It’s bandits all the way down, so adding a little smuggling to that doesn’t surprise me. Implying it’s *morally* wrong for a Chinese company to bypass US sanctions is hilarious. You really say that with a straight face when even the president admits this is only protectionism?

Smuggling or buying from a smuggler is on the "banditry" side whether you think it's moral or not.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#233

Post by parodysbird »

htek wrote: post #208
ignoramous wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes. The bans are export controls. These export controls increasingly look like "tax". The White House said the US government would take a 25 percent cut of the chip’s sales, similar to a deal with AMD and Nvidia earlier this year that allowed them to sell lower-powered AI chips to China while paying the US government 15 percent of the proceeds. > Using them in China is legal in China. Technically, yes. The CCP, th…

That's Corporatism. It's from the fascist playbook where the state takes partial or complete ownership of private companies. Where does that money go, to some slush fund for the president? The reason for the export controls is to keep our potential adversaries from being on the bleeding edge of frontier AI. It goes against the US's interests to give China a leg up with advanced chips. It's almost laughable, of course…

This is not at all what is meant by fascist corporatism, nor corporatism more generally. Corporatism is more about collective bargaining by professional trades, and is not the sense of corporation as used for private companies.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#234

Post by satvikpendem »

yannyu wrote: post #164
echelon wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the moral imperative of every country to optimize for its citizens' economic prospects. The CIA (and every other intelligence org.) is literally a weapon designed to operate in the grey area to fit the mandate of the policy makers and elected leadership. Many of the things they do are questionable or worse. In the case of the DoD, they do these things at the behest of democratically elected leadership. Of course…

This is just "might makes right" but modern. I don't know that this is the consistent, wide-held belief that you seem to think it is. Plenty of people would rather our governments not engage in clandestine disruption and undermining of foreign governments. Competition is inevitable, especially between geopolitical rivals, but we don't have to engage in Minitrue-style "the enemy has always been our enemy" rhetoric.

Do you think countries behave differently than what the parent has said? This has been going on forever, since the first clan of humans fought another, any reasoning other than "might makes right" is a post-hoc rationalization not based in history.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#237

Post by nish__ »

whatevermom3 wrote: post #188
nish__ wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I see Chinese citizens traveling abroad every day. Doesn't look like they cannot travel. Freedom of what exactly? Are you really free in America when you have to toil away 12 hours per day to make ends meet? Honestly funny to see people falling for American propaganda.

They only let some of them out. And it's hard to get a passport. Most other countries work the opposite way. You need approval to enter. In China, you need approval to exit.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#238

Post by coliveira »

echelon wrote: post #157
ComputerGuru wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s bandits all the way down, so adding a little smuggling to that doesn’t surprise me. Implying it’s *morally* wrong for a Chinese company to bypass US sanctions is hilarious. You really say that with a straight face when even the president admits this is only protectionism?

It's the moral imperative of every country to optimize for its citizens' economic prospects. The CIA (and every other intelligence org.) is literally a weapon designed to operate in the grey area to fit the mandate of the policy makers and elected leadership. Many of the things they do are questionable or worse. In the case of the DoD, they do these things at the behest of democratically elected leadership. Of course…

The US wants to have its cake and eat it too. It will pose around as a democratic and peaceful force, and use these illegal and shady tactics whenever they seem fit. And if you say this, their enablers in the traditional media will label you a conspiracy theorist.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#239

Post by coliveira »

drysine wrote: post #226
echelon wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the moral imperative of every country to optimize for its citizens' economic prospects. The CIA (and every other intelligence org.) is literally a weapon designed to operate in the grey area to fit the mandate of the policy makers and elected leadership. Many of the things they do are questionable or worse. In the case of the DoD, they do these things at the behest of democratically elected leadership. Of course…

>It's the moral imperative of every country to optimize for its citizens' economic prospects. Moral???

Correct, this is double-speak at its maximum.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#240

Post by ahtihn »

rkagerer wrote: post #177
echelon wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the sake of someone unfamiliar... Why is that? I edited my comment, but basically they both own massive social media properties (YouTube, Instagram, Facebook) or file upload sites (Google Drive, Google Photos, Gmail) and their ToSes grant them these rights. You accept these terms when you use their services. That's not great, but we are getting free services. It's in the terms. It's a whole lot better than just…

You accept these terms when you use their services. I certainly didn't*. I'd love to see litigation testing just how solid those insidious opt-in-by-default schemes are as a basis for "ownership". If they had users explicitly opt-in with a "Yes, go ahead and train on my stuff and by the way I assert that I have all the rights to grant you the same", I'd have no problem with that, and they'd have a much stronger claim…

> and further send notice to companies from time to time that I don't agree to certain objectionable clauses of their ToS and they're welcome to close my account

And then you stopped using their service right?

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