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Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

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Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#231

Post by dang »

kyboren wrote: post #134
dang wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last sentence breaks the site guidelines.

OK, sure. How 'bout this one? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46221729 Or this one? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46221631 Or this one? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46221972

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46221729 sounds like cross-examining to me.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46221631 is not flagged. That might be because we'd already turned off flags on it (I can't remember).

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46221972 I agree should not be flagged and I've unflagged it.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#232

Post by beedeebeedee »

TimorousBestie wrote: post #221
beedeebeedee wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It shouldn't be the case that people acting in bad faith can disrupt meaningful discussion between people acting in good faith. I am at a loss to suggest a better forum. Town halls, protests, talking to people on the street, Congress, etc, are not able to have these discussions either. Maybe this is not the forum, but then what is? A philosophy class you took ten years ago?

> Maybe this is not the forum, but then what is? A philosophy class you took ten years ago? Funny that you mention it, but Israel/Palestine was also a banned topic in the “Ethics and International Law” course I took circa twenty years ago. I advocate concerning yourself with the things you can control, which does not include this forum’s idiosyncratic moderation style.

> I advocate concerning yourself with the things you can control, which do not include this forum’s idiosyncratic moderation style.

I can control my comments, which are a part of this forum's moderation style, and I can advocate in those comments for people to act in good faith, and appeal for help in figuring out how to make it more common.

If we can't discuss important topics in good faith on a nerd website, what hope do we have of discussing them elsewhere? It's not hyperbole anymore to say that if we don't come to some consensus we are going to end up in authoritarianism or war.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#233

Post by hersko »

ebbi wrote: post #218
jseip wrote: post #191

Why is it inappropriate to be outraged that international humanitarian laws are actively being violated by Israel, in Gaza? Can someone help me understand?

[flagged]

I can't imagine why Israel was carrying out strikes in Lebanon after October 8th. It's a total mystery.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#234

Post by bjelkeman-again »

zug_zug wrote: post #209
impossiblefork wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Generals are always legitimate military targets.

So let me just understand your position here. Suppose the US declares war on Venezuela. Suppose a venezuelan living in America just looks up a bunch of US generals addresses online, and then sets all their houses on fire killing them in their sleep in their McMansions in suburbia. Are you saying that's a valid military strike, and therefore can't possibly be terrorism? Suppose this person is so successful he kills 1,…

I think it is a valid military strike if a Venezuelan soldier does it on an order. Military targets where a strike are in danger of killing civilians are a hard judgment call. Generally one should never risk targeting civilians. Military law is a complex subject and officers spend quite a lot of time being educated in it. Here is a Swedish defence college course on it. https://www.fhs.se/en/swedish-defence-university/courses/int...

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#235

Post by richardfeynman »

hearsathought wrote: post #224
richardfeynman wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you say here is false. 1. Israel's stated goal is to neuter Hamas and return the hostages, not kill civilians. 2. Arabs speak a semitic language; the "semites" in "anti-semite" has always referred to Jews. 3. Jews, including white Ashkenazi European Jews, are levantine in origin. Their lineage traces to Judea. 4. "Antisemitic" means anti-Jew. You are using it to mean anti-Arab, but arabs are not semites 5.…

> 1. Israel's stated goal is to neuter Hamas and return the hostages, not kill civilians. And yet so many dead civilians. It's almost like a genocial terrorist country like israel always lie. Also, I was referring to israel's genocide of the semites in palestine to found "israel" up to present day. You conveniently forgot about it. > 2. Arabs speak a semitic language; the "semites" in "anti-semite" has always referre…

1. There aren't a lot of dead civilians given that this was a 2 year war fought in a built-up urban environment fought against a plainclothes terrorist enemy that violated every law of war, including using hospitals and schools as military bases.

2. Semites is not an ethnicity, it's a language family, sorry. When used colloquially it has always referred to Jews.

3. “Semitic” is a language group, not a racial caste. Jews—including Ashkenazi—have documented Middle Eastern ancestry, and about half of Israelis are Jews from the Middle East and North Africa. The idea that Israelis are “non-Semitic Europeans pretending to be Jews” is just antisemitic nonsense, not a serious factual claim.

4. See above. Semitic is a language family, not a people. "Anti-semite" as a term has always meant "anti-Jew."

5. Correct, Arabs are Arabian. You're not "making shit up" you're repeating evidence-free nonsense you want to be true without examining its validity.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#236

Post by cholantesh »

richardfeynman wrote: post #197
hearsathought wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Everything you say here is false. 1. Israel's stated goal is to neuter Hamas and return the hostages, not kill civilians. 2. Arabs speak a semitic language; the "semites" in "anti-semite" has always referred to Jews. 3. Jews, including white Ashkenazi European Jews, are levantine in origin. Their lineage traces to Judea. 4. "Antisemitic" means anti-Jew. You are using it to mean anti-Arab, but arabs are not semites 5.…

>Israel's stated goal is to neuter Hamas and return the hostages, not kill civilians

Sure, yeah, just like it was in any number of previous operations, which at the time they declared successful, even though they did quite a bit more of the latter. Per Occam's razor, either they are prodigious bunglers, or you are overly credulous.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#237

Post by dang »

tguvot wrote: post #199
dang wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 95% of flagged comments don't break guidelines in any given discussion That number is much too high IMO, so I assume we interpret the site guidelines very differently. > as example, just below there is reply to you saying that flagging been abused, been flagged I assume you mean https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46221396 ? No, you'd see "[flagged]" if that were the case. The comment is [dead], but it was killed…

[flagged]

I don't agree, and there are many counterexamples in this thread alone.

People who are passionate about a divisive topic often feel like the site/moderators/community are hopelessly biased against their view. The people with opposing views feel exactly the same way—which, ironically, becomes the one thing they can agree about, although they disagree about the direction.

This is ultimately a function of how the passions work, so I don't believe there's much we can do about it.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#239

Post by SauntSolaire »

hearsathought wrote: post #115
impossiblefork wrote: post #8

I actually consider the pager attack to be legal. There's obviously criticism of it, but I'm fairly sure you're allowed to do this kind of thing by laws of war. Obviously this creates a huge problem for pretty much everyone though, since we can imagine that our ordinary consumer products from all sorts countries could similarly explode if we ended up at war with the manufacturers.

> I actually consider the pager attack to be legal. If it was done to "israelis", I bet you'd be singing a different tune. Imagine if iran or saudi arabia or anyone else did this to "israelis", some whiny people would be calling it terrorism.

If Hezbollah executed this same attack against the IDF it would also not be terrorism.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#240

Post by chasil »

impossiblefork wrote: post #184
zug_zug wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two things Firstly, generals, like anybody else can be terrorized. Secondly, even if you only kill generals, that doesn't mean you didn't cause terror for everybody else. Imagine for example that Hezbollah found a way to poison the food for Israel's top X military personnel. It would cause a state of emotional terror for many people in Israel about their food safety for decades most likely, even if they weren't in th…

No. Generals are always legitimate military targets.

The Geneva Convention ought to have something to say about how a general may and may not be attacked.

If I remember correctly, the assailant must be dressed in some sort of military uniform to be considered a prisoner of war if captured. Lacking the uniform, it would be espionage and no Geneva Convention rights.

Obviously, neither side in the conflict is adhering to these rules.

I should give this a read:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions

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