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BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

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Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#231
post #134

what is phev?

I have a BMW PHEV. There's a 3 cyl turbo engine with an auto box at the front and a 90hp electric motor and 7.6kwh battery at the back. Most of the new ones just have a more traditional layout with an electric motor built into the autobox. You get more elec range than a hybrid but less than a full EV. Now that it's cold I start my commute on engine to get the car warmed up with 'free' heat then switch to EV later. If I want to beat someone off the lights I use both together.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talk to car guys who are into ~2000s era or before cars. They usually have pretty solid recommendations.

Most people need a recommendation for something more current, from people who work on these modern cars daily. The reputation of 25+ year old models can be misleading. Another source of good recommendations could be insurance companies. Cars with low reliability or very expensive fixes probably need more expensive insurance. But I don't know if this data is public or if you can tell apart the reliability from the rep…

At least over here where we have mandatory inspections you can find statistics on percentage of cars which fail the inspections, broken down by brand and model. Toyota seems to consistently place in the top.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#233
post #130

This is what makes Teslas sustainable and other car cos, like Porsche, not. A battery pack for a Model 3 is $10K. So even if the whole car is only worth $20K, it's still worth keeping on the road. The Porsche Taycan battery pack is $70K. The moment you have any issue at all with it, the car will be considered totaled.

This is like comparing a Casio to a Rolex. Both do roughly the same thing, but the markets are completely different. Nobody buys a high-end luxury car like a Taycan because it makes financial sense. The manufacturers know this and price everything accordingly.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#234
post #167

€4000 euros plus tax to replace the module that contains the fuse. Insane. The ford transit custom PHEV costs £4500 to replace the timing belt. Access issues mean dropping the hybrid battery and parts of the sub frame. Compare with the mk8 transit, i've done the wet belt myself on that and it requires no special tools (well, i bought a specific crank pulley puller for £20) and can be done in a day on the driveway. I…

As a lifelong Toyota fan, I agree they are miserable to work on, especially the electronics. I have a stoplight switch issue in my 86 (from being rear-ended) that I have neglected because it would require pulling out the trunk assembly to fix. The engineering praise comes from the fact that if you are taking care of it, you will probably never have to work on it until it's well into 6-digit mileage. This remains cons…

> As a lifelong Toyota fan, I agree they are miserable to work on, especially the electronics.

I had a Toyota Yaris a couple of decades ago. Very reliable, very few issues. But some routine things like replacing headlights were completely bonkers. You had to wiggle your hand between some sharp metal parts to unscrew the back end of the armature. Sheesh, would it have been that prohibitive to add a few cm of extra space there?

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#235
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is insane. It's a fuse. They must have some stats on how often those things need replacing and it should have been accessible. The customer has - when they buy the car - absolutely no way of knowing what kind of surprises like this there are hidden in the vehicle and besides, it kills the second hand market so you can only trade your vehicle to a BMW dealership where they can absorb those costs for a fraction…

Fuses are not items that should be replaced normally - they are self-destroying emergency protections for the electrical system. If it is protecting that end users can plug arbitrary loads into, that is one thing - but this doesn’t sound like that? Why did that fuse blow? Because if that is not addressed, it’s likely to just blow again.

I think the people that replace fuses are aware of the potential issues around them. The article - which I'm sure you've read so don't take this as commentary on your comment - details that in other electric vehicles, for instance Tesla this is handled quite differently:

"While Tesla’s pyrofuse costs €11 and the BMS reset is around 50€, allowing the car to be safely restored, BMW’s approach borders on illogical engineering, with no benefit to safety, no benefit to anti-theft protection — the only outcome is the generation of billable labour hours and massive amounts of needless electronic/lithium waste."

It's not a choice between 'ridiculously inaccessible with the potential to create more damage than your car is worth' and 'push to reset'. There are many options in between, some of which would be a happy medium between the two that protect both safety, the environment and the customers' wallet. Which BMW's solution clearly isn't.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#236
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it insane? I'm working in this field, and I know how quickly you can come up with such a number if you are BMW and you are deathly afraid that someone will get electrocuted while working on your car, driving it or rescuing someone in a crash. It's a safety and liability issue, where they go to great lengths to actually re-certify a battery after crash. The whole thing is setup so, that even the dummy electricians…

Yes, it is insane. It's a fuse. They must have some stats on how often those things need replacing and it should have been accessible. The customer has - when they buy the car - absolutely no way of knowing what kind of surprises like this there are hidden in the vehicle and besides, it kills the second hand market so you can only trade your vehicle to a BMW dealership where they can absorb those costs for a fraction…

It’s not a fuse. It’s a fuse plus guarantee plus liability.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#237

€4000 euros plus tax to replace the module that contains the fuse. Insane. The ford transit custom PHEV costs £4500 to replace the timing belt. Access issues mean dropping the hybrid battery and parts of the sub frame. Compare with the mk8 transit, i've done the wet belt myself on that and it requires no special tools (well, i bought a specific crank pulley puller for £20) and can be done in a day on the driveway. I…

I've got a '91 Toyota Carina and can attest that it's very easy to work on, my friend and I pulled the engine and gearbox in under two hours with hand tools, but I can't really speak for anything modern.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#238
post #207
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am affacted by this as well: the rear knuckle uniball bearing was broken after 3 years (Achsschenkel). Many MY here in Europe have this issue, due to bad parts or too hard suspension. But there are two other things that make it a bit unfair for Tesla in comparison to other brands: Often the cars fail official inspections because of rotten breaks - this happens when your drive carefully and the Tesla is using regene…

>Often the cars fail official inspections because of rotten breaks - this happens when your drive carefully and the Tesla is using regenerative breaking Huh? Every EV uses recuperative braking, how is this special to Tesla?

German TUV thinks Teslas are horrible because apparently nobody is servicing their brakes on a regular enough interval so every time Teslas get pulled in for their 2 year inspections after 3 years of ownership they keep failing out on brakes and suspension, but VWs are the pinnacle of perfection because they slam 10K service intervals in your face.

(Of note: I drive a hybrid vehicle, and over 125,000+ miles of ownership I have replaced my front brakes once and my rear brakes three times now in five years.)

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#239
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuses are not items that should be replaced normally - they are self-destroying emergency protections for the electrical system. If it is protecting that end users can plug arbitrary loads into, that is one thing - but this doesn’t sound like that? Why did that fuse blow? Because if that is not addressed, it’s likely to just blow again.

I think the people that replace fuses are aware of the potential issues around them. The article - which I'm sure you've read so don't take this as commentary on your comment - details that in other electric vehicles, for instance Tesla this is handled quite differently: "While Tesla’s pyrofuse costs €11 and the BMS reset is around 50€, allowing the car to be safely restored, BMW’s approach borders on illogical engin…

[flagged]

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#240
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is insane. It's a fuse. They must have some stats on how often those things need replacing and it should have been accessible. The customer has - when they buy the car - absolutely no way of knowing what kind of surprises like this there are hidden in the vehicle and besides, it kills the second hand market so you can only trade your vehicle to a BMW dealership where they can absorb those costs for a fraction…

It’s not a fuse. It’s a fuse plus guarantee plus liability.

> It’s a fuse plus guarantee plus liability.

This is BMW we're talking about. Their guarantees are worth absolutely nothing if my experience is anything to go by and them accepting liability is not something you should have to pay 4K for if other brands can do the same thing under $100.

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