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Orion 1.0

blog.kagi.com

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Re: Orion 1.0

#231

Post by cawksuwcka »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #226
traceroute66 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You will probably already feel this difference every time you launch it. How many times a day / week / month do you launch your browser from scratch ? It is also a moot point with modern processors and modern OSs. Even more so in Orion's target macOS market where you can leave an app open without any windows open (not minimized, I mean not open at all) , so its ready to go at a click.

When all my windows are in one big stack (Windows, macOS), then multiple windows just get in the way and I’d agree. But over the last couple months using better window managers like sway or niri, I tend to open new app/browser windows next to the windows they are related to. It’s pretty nice for mental organization.

[flagged]

Re: Orion 1.0

#232

Post by biztos »

have_faith wrote: post #16

> Most people switch browsers for one reason: speed. Is that true? Maybe it is and I'm out of the loop but I can't remember the last time someone complained about browser speed. The bottleneck seems to be website bloat more than anything else. Would love to see this argument quantified.

I switch browsers a couple times a day for one reason: compatibility.

That’s how often I find myself having to do something in a web app that only supports Chrome. Meet the new IE, same as the old IE…

Re: Orion 1.0

#233

Post by TingPing »

freediver wrote: post #228
TingPing wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it lets you do it. It doesn’t work. https://browser.kagi.com/WebExtensions-API-Support.html The webRequest API is key, dns is used, maybe a few more. Looks like the macOS support has improved but iOS may never happen.

uBO is supported on Orion MacOS. On iOS it still depends on Apple.

Apple open sourced their WebExtension implementation, they seem open to contributions. I worry Orion doesn’t want to contribute upstream though.

Re: Orion 1.0

#234

Post by eviks »

vitorgrs wrote: post #216
eviks wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Browsers are slow to startup, that's a common complaint for various browser-based apps, you must've heard that?

They are? My Linux PC have horrible perf (a 2014 Core M, 4gb RAM), and yet, Firefox opens instantly.

And Windows? And Chrome?

Re: Orion 1.0

#235

Post by jug »

I would understand this project much better on Windows, which:

1. Doesn't have an established WebKit browser, which 110% sucks due to issues with testing for Mac and iOS. This is a long standing issue.

2. Relies on a Chromium-based browser with its own integrity issues, as well as a Microsoft approach to telemetry.

I don't associate Safari nearly as much to neither invasive telemetry, tracking, or ads beyond those on the web, nor poor performance on Mac. In fact, I often find it excellent especially in terms of battery life, and Safari has integrated content blocking and tracking protections. Maybe not as powerful as here (?) but telling of Apple's approach to caring for this.

Edit: I saw there's work on Windows support. That's good news. IMHO, this browser should be Windows-first. It makes far more sense there to me. But maybe you like Mac more as a platform?

Re: Orion 1.0

#236

Post by vitorgrs »

eviks wrote: post #234
vitorgrs wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are? My Linux PC have horrible perf (a 2014 Core M, 4gb RAM), and yet, Firefox opens instantly.

And Windows? And Chrome?

tbh, it's been 10 years I don't use Chrome... When I used Windows, my main browser was Edge, and was quite fast to open as far I remember, but I believe on Windows Edge stays open in background all the time anyway...

Re: Orion 1.0

#237

Post by crossroadsguy »

have_faith wrote: post #16

> Most people switch browsers for one reason: speed. Is that true? Maybe it is and I'm out of the loop but I can't remember the last time someone complained about browser speed. The bottleneck seems to be website bloat more than anything else. Would love to see this argument quantified.

I switch(ed) for simplicity and privacy. Haven't found any yet. Camino and Firefox used to be that; and the browser on ElementaryOS (which IIRC was just a cleaned Firefox but not sure). Not anymore. Stopped using ElementaryOS, and every other browser collectively decided to aspire for FUBAR.

Now I think I'll just keep switching until there's one decent browser left which hasn't been AIed.

Re: Orion 1.0

#238

Post by ringer »

sedatk wrote: post #75
have_faith wrote: post #16

> Most people switch browsers for one reason: speed. Is that true? Maybe it is and I'm out of the loop but I can't remember the last time someone complained about browser speed. The bottleneck seems to be website bloat more than anything else. Would love to see this argument quantified.

It was true, and it was what made Google Chrome popular in the first place. Internet Explorer and Firefox were dead slow to start at the time while Chrome started instantly. We just don’t know how bad slow browsers can be because all others have caught up.

I think Google gained more users with its aggressive advertising campaign than with its speed (except for power users). If someone used a Google product like search, email or youtube in a non-google browser, Google would always show an ad encouraging them to switch to Chrome.

Re: Orion 1.0

#239

Post by crossroadsguy »

z64 wrote: post #46
barnabee wrote: post #15

I like the direction and keep checking in on it, but while Orion remains closed source there's no chance of it ever being more than a curiosity for me.

(I work at Kagi, but do not work on Orion) There's a lot of different reasons that people ask for open sourcing of Orion / software in general; could I ask you to expand a bit more as to which issues being open source would address for you? I can assume of course, but I'd rather listen to you articulate it, even if it's usual reasons.

I expect a lot of people saying trust. My reason is simpler - a browser is not like an email service, it's not like an IM, it's not like a social network, not that these as FOSS wouldn't be better, but a browser is literally the most fundamental end-user software to access the Internet and I don't want to bother spending even 10 mins to support another browser that is not FOSS. This sounds harsh but I am not shitting on Kagi or Orion. While I have not much positive views on Kagi Search either, I understand that and accept that and hence I acknowledge that, but the closed-source browser - nope! In some twisted way it feels like paying public taxes to build a private road. It's not a great analogy, I know, but that's the closest I could come to in terms of a connotation.

Re: Orion 1.0

#240

Post by bean469 »

traceroute66 wrote: post #137
yannickburky wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orion already weighs 100 MB less than Chrome. You will probably already feel this difference every time you launch it.

> You will probably already feel this difference every time you launch it. How many times a day / week / month do you launch your browser from scratch ? It is also a moot point with modern processors and modern OSs. Even more so in Orion's target macOS market where you can leave an app open without any windows open (not minimized, I mean not open at all) , so its ready to go at a click.

> How many times a day / week / month do you launch your browser from scratch ?

Personally, around 5 times per day, every day. When I don't browse, I close the browser

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