Learn Prolog Now (2006)

"?- 1=1." is Prolog code. Executing Prolog code is reasoning. Therefore that is reasoning. Q.E.D. This is the point you refused to move on from until I agreed. So I agreed. So we could get back to the interesting topic.

A topic you had no interest in, only interest dragging onto a trangent and grinding it down to make ... what point, exactly? If "executing Prolog code" is reasoning, then what? I say it isn't useful to call it reasoning (in the context of this thread) because it's too broad to be a helpful definition, basically everything is reasoning, and almost nothing is not. When I tried to say in advance that this wouldn't be a useful direction and I didn't want to go here, you said it was " not a great way to have a discussion". And now having dragged me off onto this academic tangent, you dismiss it as "I wasn't interested in that other topic anyway". Annoying.

> By formal definitions, all 3 languages are Turing complete and can express programs of the same computational complexity.

So is Brainfuck.

Turing equivalence does not imply that languages are equally useful choices for any particular application.

I'm sorry you find my contribution to the discussion annoying, but how should I feel if you just "agree" with me as a way to get me to stop arguing?

But I think your annoyance may be caused by misunderstanding my argument. For example:

>> If "executing Prolog code" is reasoning, then what? I say it isn't useful to call it reasoning (in the context of this thread) because it's too broad to be a helpful definition, basically everything is reasoning, and almost nothing is not.

Everything is not reasoning, nor is executing any code reasoning, but "executing Prolog code" is, because executing Prolog code is a special case of executing code. The reason for that is that Prolog's interpreter is an automated theorem prover, therefore executing Prolog code is carrying out a proof; in an entirely literal and practical sense, and not in any theoretical or abstract sense. And it is very hard to see how carrying out a proof automatically is "not reasoning".

I made this point in my first comment under yours, here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45909159

The same clearly does not apply to Python, because its interpreter is not an automated theorem prover; it doesn't apply to javascript because its interpreter is not an automated theorem prover; it doesn't apply to C because its compiler is not an automated theorem prover; and so on, and so forth. Executing code in any of those languages is not reasoning, except in the most abstract and, well, academic, sense, e.g. in the context of the Curry-Howard correspondence. But not in the practical, down-to-brass-tacks way it is in Prolog. Calling what Prolog does reasoning is not a definition of reasoning that's too broad to be useful, as you say. On the contrary, it's a very precise definition of reasoning that applies to Prolog but not to most other programming languages.

I think you misunderstand this argument and as a consequence fail to engage with it and then dismiss it as irrelevant because you misunderstand it. I think you should really try to understand it, because it's obvious you have some strong views on Prolog which are not correct, and you might have the chance to correct them.

I absolutely have an interest in any claim that generating Prolog code with LLMs will fix LLMs' inability to reason. Prolog is a major part of my programming work and research.

The brain can still use other means of working in addition to brute forcing solutions. For example, how would you go about solving the chess puzzle of eight queens that doesn't involve going through the potential positions and then filtering out the options that don't match the criteria for the solution?

Prolog can also evaluate mathematical expressions directly as well.

You call it the dumbest thing you have ever read, and say that I know nothing - but you agree that it is a correct statement ("Prolog does a specific type of formalized reasoning").

> "What does this even mean?"

For someone who is so eager to call comments dumb, you sure have a lot of not-understanding going on.

1. Someone said "Prolog is good at reasoning problems"

2. I said it isn't any better than other languages.

3. Prolog people jumped on me because Ackchually Technickally everything Prolog does is 'reasoning' hah gotcha!

4. I say that is entirely unrelated to the 'reasoning' in "Prolog is good at reasoning problems". I demonstrate this by reductio ad absurdum - if executing "?- 1=1." is "reasoning" then it's absurd for the person to be saying that definition is a compelling reason to use Prolog, therefore they were not saying that, therefore this whole tangent about whether some formalism is or isn't reasoning by some academic definition is irrelevant to the claim and counter claim.

> "are merely arguing for argument's sake."

Presumably you are arguing for some superior purpose?

The easiest way for you to change my mind is to demonstrate literally anything that is better for an LLM to emit in Prolog than Python - given the condition that LLMs don't have to care about conciseness or expressivity or readability in the same way humans do. For one example I say it would no better for an LLM to solve an Einstein Puzzle one way or the other. The fact that you can't or won't do this, and prefer insults, is not changing my mind nor is it educating me in anything.