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IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

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Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An induction stove doesn't answer your monitoring needs, but it's probably the safest thing to cook with. Only heats up when there's a pan, not prone to fires, ours even complains loudly if something unexpected is happening (eg lots of spilled liquid).

Every induction stove I’ve ever used though, was designed by someone who either has never heard of human interface design, or has done and entirely hates the concept of it. Eg, buttons so close to the heating element that they hurt to press Buttons to turn it off that only work when dry, places near where a spill would go. Buttons you have to press up to 10 times just to get it to a reasonable heat. Why does inductio…

Hobs built into the countertop are usually like that (and I hate them vigorously for the reasons you state), but freestanding furnaces (oven plus hobs) exist with big physical buttons. Since the buttons are on the front of your unit, the heating surface is still flat and easy to clean. Smeg makes nice ones, and I’m sure others exist.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every induction stove I’ve ever used though, was designed by someone who either has never heard of human interface design, or has done and entirely hates the concept of it. Eg, buttons so close to the heating element that they hurt to press Buttons to turn it off that only work when dry, places near where a spill would go. Buttons you have to press up to 10 times just to get it to a reasonable heat. Why does inductio…

There is an ease of cleaning value that comes from a single unbroken surface. That said - placement needs some work. Or put the UI in a phone.

Pull out my phone to turn on the heat on my stove ? A simple and satisfying mechanical motion that’s in my muscle memory since forever ? Hard to express how much I would hate that !

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#233
post #178
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't aware of that. One other concern I have with Matter is that, if I understand correctly, Thread+Matter devices get their own IP address with internet access, whereas with Zigbee all of that has to be controlled by the gateway. In theory that's a win for Matter, but I'm a little concerned about the security and enshitification problems that might cause. I kinda like the idea that I can buy a cheap IoT lock off…

Neither Matter nor Matter-over-Thread require Internet access. We really should be yelling for advancements in simple-to-configure dedicated, restricted VLANs and SSIDs for IOT devices instead of yelling about how inappropriate we think that using IP is. (Historically, IP wins in these conundrums anyway. IP has been succession of grand successes for decades. Resistance is futile. We should work to prepare for the eve…

> Neither Matter nor Matter-over-Thread require Internet access.

The protocols themselves might not but as a warning to people looking for “matter” as an indicator they can have local only control, apparently the matter spec doesn’t require local only setup. I bought Honeywell’s new matter thermostat and in order to get the QR code and keys you need to register it to a matter controller, you first have to download their app and connect the thermostat to their cloud, so that you can get the keys from the app. So the matter capabilities are still useless

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious why you are disgruntled with Philips Hue. They were quite honestly one of my happiest purchases, though I bought them when they were the only programmable color lights available to buy and I would probably get another model today. Was it the dropping of support?

They started requiring an account to use the lights, and support started stating stating that the bulbs will not be usable without an account or the app, with the CTO stating intention to deprecate the local APIs entirely. This flies in the face of why I bought Hue. These are woes I thought I'd be "safe" from when I bought from Philips. I never wanted to create an account or use an app. After spending time setting up…

That would be annoying and could well have pushed me off the platform. I guess I avoided that* because I downloaded the local mobile sdk for the hue lights early on, and coded up an app which met my peculiar needs, never looking back. I always figured the bulbs needed firmware updates to be pushed to them from the official app, so I just never initiated that, and so it never became an issue. I still regularly build the iOS app and use it to variously control the lights.

*Not to say that making ones own mobile clients is in anyway a for-everyone solution, but rather something only a picky mobile developer would do.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#235
post #3

IKEA's Zigbee devices have been some of the more stable smart devices I owned. I wasn't running their hub, opting to run with deCONZ in the past and moving to Zigbee2MQTT in recent years. I do wish the new range would include blinds; the previous generation (FYRTUR) is out of production, and it doesn't seem like there's a replacement yet.

I have quite different observations. IKEA's Zigbee devices are the least stable devices I own and with smaller feature set. For example, I have more than a dozen Zigbee smart outlet around my home, and the IKEA one is the only one that ever hang and became uncontrollable, yet its also the only one without a physical button to toggle and without power monitoring. One of IKEA's Zigbee remote controls I have also regula…

What brands from AliExpress can you recommend?

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#236

So what's the skinny with Matter devices? I was potentially looking into one so that I could plug my Moccamaster into a smart timer (wonderful coffee maker, but the lack of programmable functionality has my wife constantly wanting to pull out our old Ninja), and I liked what I read about Matter. But it would be my first Matter device and I started to get discouraged when the documentation said I would need to purchas…

You may already have a Matter controller. For WiFi Matter devices you may be able to use your smartphone.

For iPhones (and iPads) just make sure you have OS version 18. They actually added Matter controller functionality in 16.1 but many people found it very flakey. Before 18 when I tried it I got my smart plug (Tapo TP15) connected and it worked fine for something like a day and then disappeared, and then I was never able to get it connected again. Even after telling the phone to forget the device and doing a factory reset on the plug I could not get the phone to see it. 18 on other hand has been fine.

For Android phones you need at least Android 8.1 and Google Play services 22.48.14 or later and Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) 4.2 or later. That's what the net tells me--I do not have any direct experience with Android. The net is also telling me that you really want Android 12 because Matter support was not as stable in earlier versions.

From the name Matter controller and the diagrams in many explanations of how Matter works people tend to get the impression that a Matter controller is kind of like the WiFi router on your WiFi network: some dedicated device which you generally only have one of.

To see why that is not the case it is helpful to look at what a Matter controller actually does. (The general idea is right in what follows, but I'm sure I've botched some details that don't affect the overall points).

When you start out with a brand new Matter device and power it up the device will come up ready to be paired with its first controller. The controller and the device communicate using BLE, but the device will only talk to a controller that has a code that is hardwired into the device. That's what is in the QR code that is usually printed on the device or its packaging or a slip of paper in the package.

The controller and the device use that code to establish a secure communications channel over BLE. The controller gives the device WiFi connection information and gives it a certificate that can be used to verify that future communication over WiFi is with that controller. The device can actually remember several of these controller certificates, allow the device to work with several controllers.

Later, when things want to communicate with the device over WiFi it will only talk to things that can prove they have the private keys for a controller certificate the device has.

There is nothing that requires those private keys to only be in one place. If you set up a new Matter device using your iPad, for example, it will store the keys in Keychain and they will be shared with your other Apple devices, such as your iPhone and your Mac. Your iPhone and Mac can then authenticate to the device and it will accept commands from them. As far as the device is concerned they are all the controller that set it up.

There are some advantages of getting a controller that is not your phone/tablet/computer, such as a HomePod or Apple TV. Those support remote control through the cloud. If you just use your phone/tablet/computer you can only control the device locally.

Suppose that you set up the device first using an iPhone as the controller. Later you want to also be able to control it from an Android phone. What you do is go to Apple Home, find the device and open its settings, and somewhere in there there will be an option to put the device in pairing mode.

Select that and Home will generate a one-time pairing code, give that to the device, and put the device in pairing mode. It will also tell you that code.

You then go to your Android phone and go through its process for setting up a Matter device, except you use the code you got from Apple Home instead of the code that came with the device. The code that comes with the device is only used to set it up with the first controller (initially or after a factory reset).

That gets the certificate for your Android phone onto the device. It doesn't disturb the certificate from the iPhone so now the device will recognize both your Apple stuff and your Android phone as legit controllers.

Now suppose later you get an Amazon Echo and want to add the device. Echos can act as Matter controllers for the Alexa ecosystem. You can use any one of the existing controllers that are paired with the device (iPhone or Android phone, or anything those have shared their private key with like iPad or Mac) and have that put the device in pairing mode again and generate a one-time code, and then use the Alexa app on one of your phones to go through Amazon's Matter controller setup.

In summary:

1. Each ecosystem (Apple Home, Google Home, Amazon Alexa, Home Assistant, Samsung SmartThings, etc) that you want to use a Matter device with needs a Matter controller.

2. A Matter controller is not necessarily a separate piece of hardware. If you just want to control a Matter device from your phone you've probably already got everything you need.

For Matter devices that use Thread for wireless communication instead of WiFi, you are more likely to need hardware other than just phones and tablets. I think some newer iPhones do support Thread directly, but mine doesn't and I don't own any Thread devices so have not looked deeper.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried Home Assistant, but found it fiddly and to have weird limitations, e.g. the recommendation to limit statistics collection to 90 days for performance reasons (so you have to set up something like InfluxDB otherwise). The UI is also weird and not very logical. weirdness going on in a regular home you need to accomodate that with any of these 'turnkey' solutions Homey Pro supports user apps written in HomeyScrip…

Luckily me and my partner are all Apple, so even though the smart home is backed by Home Assistant, our interface to it is via the Home app (or Siri)

Apple doesn't make water heaters, A/Cs or furnaces, and I don't think most people would junk their own because it doesn't know how to integrate with Matter.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not bad compared to Bluetooth. Also, you will need FCC cert by law and probably some UL certs if you actually want to sell you product anywhere so you are already looking at 10s of thousands even if you choose ZigBee. I would love to live in a world where indie hardware can launch wireless products without huge cert cost but that's not the world we live in.

Use a pre-certified module and do your own unintentional emitter testing. It's not that hard. You don't need UL for smart home sensors.

I don't think you can do you own testing like you suggest. You can self declare but you still need to include test data in that declaration so unless you happen to own all of the highly expensive calibrated test equipment you will need to pay an external test lab.

You don't need UL if you are just selling directly via your own website. However, if you want to sell the product in stores, most stores are going to require it.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're looking for a Thread border gateway. Lots of stuff already has it. Someone mentioned AppleTV and HomePod mini. Newer Google Nest speakers/displays have it as well. But you can do it with just Home Assistant and a Thread radio: https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/thread#turning-ho... Personally, I pair my wifi and Thread matter devices to my Apple Home, as each Apple TV behaves as a redundant, ethernet c…

Is it absolutely necessary to have a base/gateway? This Verge article[0] seems to imply not, but it's not at all clear to me what I lose. If I just want a smart switch that controls a smart light, can I do that without a hub? Can I use my phone to control that light/switch in a pinch? I'm not averse to spending $100 or whatever, but it's just more _stuff_ that I'd rather not think about. [0] "Apple now lets you add M…

It's not strictly necessary to have separate a hub/controller, no: After all, a Matter controller is just a small computer-widget that sits on a network and talks with IP packets.

A pocket supercomputer, such as an iPhone, theoretically works just as well: It's a small computer-widget that sits on a network, right? It just happens to run on batteries and be carried around in your pocket.

It's just software at that point.

At the end of the day: The Matter devices are paired with the controller, similar to how Bluetooth devices are also typically paired with a main brain-box. (Except: A Matter device can be paired with many controllers concurrently, whereas a lot of Bluetooth devices can only be paired with one at a time.)

The network connection doesn't have to be permanent: It can work when controller is present on the network, and it will [perhaps obviously] cease to work when the controller is absent.

So if Apple has software that runs within an iPhone and acts as a Matter controller, then: Sure, no additional hardware is needed to wiggle the state of a Matter light bulb using your iPhone.

(And if that kind of local control is all you ever care about for controlling stuff then... that's good enough.)

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily me and my partner are all Apple, so even though the smart home is backed by Home Assistant, our interface to it is via the Home app (or Siri)

Apple doesn't make water heaters, A/Cs or furnaces, and I don't think most people would junk their own because it doesn't know how to integrate with Matter.

None of my smart home devices are Apple / HomeKit, yet they're available in Apple Home.
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