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Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

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Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#231

Post by JumpCrisscross »

com2kid wrote: post #148
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are you saying that the rest of the country does not have anybody who makes fresh bagels? Of the kind that stale in two hours? Yes. It wouldn’t be economical. > maybe other cities in the US do have bagels that are just as good as NYC but they are more expensive? Never say never, but I haven’t seen it. I have seen private chefs pull it off. But they basically required a sous chef to deal with the lye and boiling. >…

A minor correction to your base premise - There is a bagel shop in Newton MA that is open for a few hours in the morning that has bagels just as good as NYC. People line to before they open and the bagels are quickly sold out in a mad rush. There is a French bakery close to me in Seattle there makes croissants in the morning and they sell out in less than 2 hours. IMHO they are the best croissants in the city, althou…

> There is a bagel shop in Newton MA that is open for a few hours in the morning that has bagels just as good as NYC

I love this!

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#232

Post by thatfrenchguy »

com2kid wrote: post #146
bruce511 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is certainly the root of the misunderstandings in this (and other) spaces. At the very-local level of course there are exceptions, but generally speaking US food is terrible compared to European food. The US optimizes for volume and cost, Europe leans more towards quality. Yes, there's a lot of cheap rubbish food in Europe, but those consuming it know it's cheap rubbish. By contrast, and to your point, m…

> My local, nothing special, supermarket stocks over 100 species of cheese. I remember going to the US and being confronted either 3 (American, whatever that is, Swiss and Cheddar. Um, which is unlike any cheddar I've ever had. Frankly the biggest difference seemed to be the color (which is artificial). When was this comparison done? In the last decade or so American grocery stores have dramatically improved their ch…

> In the last decade or so American grocery stores have dramatically improved their cheese selections. I don't know if it is 100 different cheeses, but it is pretty darn close. And unusual regional cheeses come in all the time.

Eh, I mean, sure, if you go to a Whole Foods or Trader Joe, you’ll find cheese that might rival a discount chain in France at premium prices. If you go to Safeway, Target or Walmart, the cheese will not be anywhere near what a French (or I assume, a Swiss) person would find acceptable.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#233

Post by thatfrenchguy »

thomasmg wrote: post #121
slibhb wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search Google maps for "bakery" and sort by rating. It's not hard to find a good bakery in any dense area in the US. I have to imagine people claiming otherwise are indulging in Yankee-bashing, a favorite European pastime.

What one considers a "good bread" or "good bakery" depends on the person. I'm from Switzerland. When I was in the United States (Bay Area, San Francisco), in 2000-2003, I did _not_ find what I consider a "good bread". I did find "bakery".

I mean, in San Francisco, you’ll find plenty of good bread and pastries, it’s the only mid size city in the US that has enough French people to have two competing French language schools for kiddos.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#234

Post by com2kid »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #232
com2kid wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My local, nothing special, supermarket stocks over 100 species of cheese. I remember going to the US and being confronted either 3 (American, whatever that is, Swiss and Cheddar. Um, which is unlike any cheddar I've ever had. Frankly the biggest difference seemed to be the color (which is artificial). When was this comparison done? In the last decade or so American grocery stores have dramatically improved their ch…

> In the last decade or so American grocery stores have dramatically improved their cheese selections. I don't know if it is 100 different cheeses, but it is pretty darn close. And unusual regional cheeses come in all the time. Eh, I mean, sure, if you go to a Whole Foods or Trader Joe, you’ll find cheese that might rival a discount chain in France at premium prices. If you go to Safeway, Target or Walmart, the chees…

My local QFC (Kroger), for all the complaints I have about it, has a pretty darn good cheese selection.

So does my local co-op that I can walk to.

Or the other bougie store less than a mile away from me.

Within a 1 mile radius I probably have over 200 varieties of cheese to choose from!

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#235

Post by Steve44 »

enopod_ wrote: post #191
Steve44 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK it's fairly common to use the term "Swiss cheese". Most people would know you are talking about Emmental or Gruyere and it would have the bubbles/holes in it. Although they are not the same cheese, they are quite close in texture and flavour and are fairly interchangeable to the point where I don't think a significant number of people could tell you which was which. There is also the Swiss Cheese Model whic…

Emmentaler and Gruyère close in texture and flavour and interchangeable? Oh boy, if you ever travel to Switzerland, I recommend you to keep your opinions on cheese to yourself. ;) Emmentaler has holes, is low in salt and has a taste which is on the bland side (I personally don't like it), whereas Gruyère has no holes, is saltier and has a much richer and "rounder" flavour. It comes in different stages of ripening, fr…

> whereas Gruyère has no holes

TIL that Gruyere from France is different to Swiss and it must have holes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruy%C3%A8re_cheese > The PGI documentation also requires that French Gruyère has holes "ranging in size from that of a pea to a cherry", a significant departure from the Swiss original. Peter Ungphakorn, a Swiss local and an international trade expert, comments that the French Comté cheese could be a closer match to the Swiss version.

And there is a good image of Gruyere with holes here, https://classicfinefoods.co.uk/dairy/5713-french-gruyere-pgi...

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#236

Post by Steve44 »

Freak_NL wrote: post #201
enopod_ wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emmentaler and Gruyère close in texture and flavour and interchangeable? Oh boy, if you ever travel to Switzerland, I recommend you to keep your opinions on cheese to yourself. ;) Emmentaler has holes, is low in salt and has a taste which is on the bland side (I personally don't like it), whereas Gruyère has no holes, is saltier and has a much richer and "rounder" flavour. It comes in different stages of ripening, fr…

I'll never understand how people can think 'Gruyère' and then imagine cheese with holes in it… A fun fact: the Dutch don't usually think of Emmentaler when you say 'Zwitserse kaas', but of these paper shakers filled with grated Schabziger: https://www.gourmandgazette.nl/2023/12/08/zwitserse-kaas/ Those have been sold as 'Zwitserse strooikaas' for decades.

> I'll never understand how people can think 'Gruyère' and then imagine cheese with holes in it

I've put a lengthier response to the parent post, but look at https://classicfinefoods.co.uk/dairy/5713-french-gruyere-pgi... as that may solve our quandary.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#237

Post by bobthepanda »

PopAlongKid wrote: post #213
bobthepanda wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hero image for Kraft Singles on Wikipedia clearly states “Pasteurized prepared cheese product” https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kraft_Singles.jpg It is a sleight of hand that it says American, but it specifically does not say American cheese as a single phrase.

You are looking at the wrong product. This one[0] does say "American cheese" as a single phrase. And the slices are not individually wrapped, as they don't need to be. [0] https://www.kraftheinz.com/kraft-deli-deluxe/products/000210...

Kraft Singles and their Velveeta equivalent are what is available abroad, not the Kraft Deli Deluxe. 40 percent of American households in 2019 bought Kraft Singles.

You may not like it, but it is the public face of American cheese.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#238

Post by bobthepanda »

yesco wrote: post #134
bobthepanda wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The technical definition of American cheese is that. In practice, unless you are going to look specifically for it, Kraft, Velveeta et. al. are more than happy to sell you "American cheese product" which does not meet FDA standards for labeling for American cheese, and in practice a lot of people criticizing American cheese are actually criticizing cheese product, which is what is super easy to find both in American…

Wait so when Europeans complain about American cheese, they are talking about Kraft/Velveeta? I always thought of those as their own independent thing, do they not purchase their cheese at the deli? Most foods exported across the Atlantic are not going to be the fresh kind...

They purchase European cheeses given that most American cheese types are descended from European cheeses; cheddar is English and blue is descended from English Stilton.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#239

Post by dragonwriter »

gerdesj wrote: post #41
dylan604 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather be known for Swiss cheese than American cheese. At least Swiss is actually cheese and not a cheese product. American cheese is nasty. It baffles me people not only eat it, but also like it

There are largely three types of cheese in the US: Swiss, American and Cheddar. I live near to Cheddar (Somerset, UK) but I'm not going to get too outraged. All countries, without exception, do something unpleasant to an ingredient or dish that the rest of the world will cry foul over. It is the way of things.

> There are largely three types of cheese in the US: Swiss, American and Cheddar.

All sources I can find have cheddar #1 and mozzarella either #2 or #3 (with cream cheese #2 when moz is #3) in the US. American is behind them and Swiss is way back behind a bunch of other things including Jack and various blends.

Swiss/American/Cheddar might be the big three for a particular sandwich shop, but...

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#240

Post by [deleted] »

mda wrote: post #173
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that cheese does not come from Switzerland The canton of Bern makes an absolutely excellent Emmantaler. It’s the original Swiss cheese as brought to America by 19th-century Swiss immigrants to Wisconsin.

I always found Emmentaler bland and boring compared to many others in Switzerland, I wish the immigrants brought something better.

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