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Does our “need for speed” make our wi-fi suck?

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Re: Does our “need for speed” make our wi-fi suck?

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The house I live in was built with ethernet, but of the fourteen outlets the builders saw fit to include, not one is located where we can make use of it. The two devices in our house which use a wired connection are both plugged directly into the switch in our utility closet. (We do have one internet-connected device which permanently lives about an inch away from one of the ethernet sockets, but it is, ironically, a…

Some friends live in a rental that they’ve decorated well. It wasn’t until multiple visits that I realized they had run Ethernet throughout the house. You can get skinny Ethernet cables that bend easily. If you get some that match your paint, and route them in straight lines, those can be unobtrusive. Use tricks like running the cables along baseboards and other trim pieces. If you really want to minimize the visual…

I did this years ago using the very thin (3mm, round) Unifi Patch Cables in white. Very clean and reliable, and getting 1 Gbit/s without issue.

Another benefit is that I can cram 4 of them inside a single cable runner at the one spot I have to (no space for a switch). Where it's just one cable you run them bare and they look very clean.

The old ones I have are still CAT5e, the newer ones they sell are CAT6 at the same thinness. All unshielded (UTP).

10/10 would buy again.

Re: Does our “need for speed” make our wi-fi suck?

#232
post #118

For me the only thing that really matters, and globally sucks with WiFi is roaming. My house is old and has stones walls up to 120cm, including the inner walls, so I have to have access points is nearly all rooms. I never had a true seamless roaming experience. Today, I have TP-Link Omada and it works better than previous solutions, but it is still not as good as DECT phones for examples. For example if I watch a twi…

I live in a similar building.

I assume you have hardwired all the APs, otherwise that would be the first step. Make sure they're on different channels, and have narrow MHz bands (20Mhz for 2.4GHz, 40MHz for 5GHz) selected.

Only use 1,6,11 for 2.4GHz and don't use the DFS channels on 5GHz as they will regularly hang everything.

Afterwards you can try reducing the 5GHz transmission power so there is no/less overlap in the far rooms.

Unfortunately you probably need the 2.4GHz (at least I do) but as the range is so much higher it might make sense to deactivate it on some APs to prevent overlaps.

Doing this basically eliminated the issues for me.

Re: Does our “need for speed” make our wi-fi suck?

#233
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not use it. A few things come to mind... - You can buy ethernet adapters... for iPhone/ipad/etc. Operations are so much faster, especially large downloads like offline maps. - many consumer devices suck wrt to wifi. For example, there seem to me ZERO soundbars with wired subwoofers. They all incorporate wifi. - also, if anyone has lived in a really dense urban environment, wifi is a liability in just about every wa…

> many consumer devices suck wrt to wifi. For example, there seem to me ZERO soundbars with wired subwoofers. They all incorporate wifi. Sonos has its issues, but I do need to point out that their subs (and the rest) all have Ethernet ports in addition to WiFi.

And also, previously: In the dark times when end-user wireless network bandwidth very low and glitchy (and most home users didn't care much), and before "mesh" became a term associated with a single-box collection of items that could be bought at Wal-Mart, Sonos devices were able to mesh together and form their own wireless network that Just Worked.

In software-land, they even solved latency inequalities well-enough to keep things properly in-phase at 20KHz between different devices, to allow stereo imaging to work correctly betwixt two wirelessly-connected speakers. (This seems very passe' in these modern enlightened times of seemingly-independent wireless Bluetooth earbuds, but it was a tough nut for them to crack back in 2002[!].)

It wasn't all smiles and rainbows, of course, because the world never properly settled on one, true, universal implementation of something like Spanning Tree Protocol and agreed on how to use it. It was very possible for a person to really hose up their network by connecting Sonos gear the "wrong" way -- by connecting "too much" of it directly to the LAN.

But those potential problems were broadly mitigable by picking exactly one Sonos device to bridge the wireless SonosNet into the home's LAN: Ideally, a Sonos Bridge would -- uh -- provide that bridge, but any random Sonos speaker (or subwoofer!) would do just as well. This worked, but it involved some aspect of wifi.

And yeah, the problems could also be mitigated in other ways if they showed up: A person could certainly plug in their Sonos sub, sound bar, and surround speakers into Ethernet -- which was really quite neat and tidy if it worked, and it often worked. But it was a pickle if it didn't work because STP implementations can be an unadjustable boondoggle in the consumer space.

They had a really neat and rather unique thing going for quite a long time before the market shifted to make their products apparently be fickle, outdated, inferior, and expensive. ("What, no Bluetooth?" people once said, even though, being an independent network-based streamer, it doesn't have Bluetooth problems like a person walking to the other side of the house with their phone where everyone but them can hear it noisily glitch out until they wander back.)

Nowadays, SonosNet seems to be mostly dead, and the STP problems died with it. Common home wifi has also grown up a lot since 2002. So a person can hard-wire their Sonos sub, soundbar, and surround speakers into the LAN without fear of badness -- or use one or more of those wirelessly, instead. All without problems.

It was pretty neat. It's still pretty neat today.

Re: Does our “need for speed” make our wi-fi suck?

#234
This is such a great write-up it highlights a truth that’s been hiding in plain sight for years: we’ve optimized Wi-Fi for headline speeds, not human experience. Emphasis on throughput reminds one of the "megapixel wars" of early digital photography a simple, clear-cut figure that completely misrepresents actual quality. Responsiveness and reliability are the actual measures that control day to day satisfaction, but they are harder to define and won't neatly go on a store shelf. What is fascinating here is that speed tests themselves actively degrade the network performance. It's like taking your pulse by first dashing a lap in sprinting mode. Whether we'll see more router makers or ISPs start offering "responsiveness scores" instead of speed numbers once the consumer pays attention to latency and airtime contention remains to be seen. At any rate, this post nails the broader cultural problem in networking: the industry still chases awe inspiring numbers instead of better experiences.

Re: Does our “need for speed” make our wi-fi suck?

#235
Is this still true with OFDM and subchannels or whatever it's called?

Also MIMO.

And don't think it's relevant to compare what to do in a large space with what one should do at home. The requirements are entirely different.

In a large space with many users I'd use small channels and many access points. I want it to work good enough for everyone to have calls, and have good aggregate throughput.

In a two bed home I'd use large channels and probably only one AP. Peak single device speed is MUCH more important than aggregate speed.

And in a home it matters much more what channels are being busyed by neighbors.

For latency, of course, there is only wired. Even with few devices.

Re: Does our “need for speed” make our wi-fi suck?

#237
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't know that Big Tech is extracting data from them on a massive scale. It's up to us, the "tech people," to educate the people and show them alternatives like Graphene. As for the TV, my advice is not to connect it to the internet. If you need to stream something, hook up a laptop or dedicated device to the TV.

This is where regulation comes in. For the TV makers. Things should be secure by default and come with fines if they aren't. As for the extracting of data, yes that happens on a massive scale. In free products that no one is forced to use. And I would argue that, by now, almost everyone should know that comes at a price, it's just not monetary to the user. At that point it's a choice people make and should be allowed…

The "it spies on you because it's free" thing hasn't been true for many years now. TVs that cost almost a grand still spy on you, as do cars that cost tens of thousands. Youtube/Netflix/Spotify/... still spy on you even if you pay for the premium/whatever tier.

If something is free, you're the product. But if it isn't free, you're paying to be the product.

Re: Does our “need for speed” make our wi-fi suck?

#238

This is such a great write-up it highlights a truth that’s been hiding in plain sight for years: we’ve optimized Wi-Fi for headline speeds, not human experience. Emphasis on throughput reminds one of the "megapixel wars" of early digital photography a simple, clear-cut figure that completely misrepresents actual quality. Responsiveness and reliability are the actual measures that control day to day satisfaction, but…

How do you think speeds effect airtime utilization/optimization? And how does this change with lower PHY rates?

Re: Does our “need for speed” make our wi-fi suck?

#240
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the best way to speed up your Wi-Fi is to not use it. So true! Other tips I’ve found useful: Separate 2.4ghz network for only IoT devices. They tend to have terrible WiFi chipsets and use older WiFi standards. Slower speed = more airtime used for the same amount of data. This way the “slow” IoT devices don’t interfere with your faster devices which… Faster devices such as laptops and phones belong on 5ghz only netw…

Solid idea and something I should work towards. We have Ethernet drops in every room but you’re right about IoT devices. Now I have some more planning to do.

skip wifi and use zigbee for IoT where possible.
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