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The Lost Chapter

aarongreenspan.com

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Re: The Lost Chapter

#231

Post by law »

zingahgud wrote: post #227
law wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In one of the most telling IMs of their entire correspondence (see page 62 of The Complete Timeline), Zuckerberg stated: "i kind of view you as a friend." This came up when Zuckerberg was annoyed that Greenspan made a security hole public. Greenspan handled the situation with immense professionalism, while Zuckerberg simply could not accept responsibility. Mark's friends are only entitled to the appellation when it's…

Glad to see someone else caught that. But by the same token we have to consider that Greenspan may have hand-picked these IM conversations. It does not appear he's giving us a data dump. More like another one of his White Papers where he is venting. None of this should be even remotely interesting until you consider hundreds of millions of people have sent their personal information to the manipulative kid in the IM'…

I agree that we're only getting limited information. I'd love to see his personal IMs, because I think those would shed even more light on his character. It's curiously ironic how the man who has access to the secrets of millions of people has revealed so little about himself.

Re: The Lost Chapter

#232

Post by tptacek »

autophil wrote: post #229
tptacek wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only in places like Hacker News is there a consensus opinion that Facebook is "a new addictive and time wasting form of entertainment who's contribution society is null or negative". Facebook has increased the number of interactions I have with my extended family by roughly a factor of infinity --- and I'm one of those nerds who's run a mailing list for his family since the mid '90s. A more concise way to say what 'g…

Only in places like Hacker News is there a consensus opinion that Facebook is "a new addictive and time wasting form of entertainment who's contribution society is null or negative" You either know that statement is untrue but lie anyway, or you haven't been outside and seen a tree in real life for over a year. Many people of all walks of life think Facebook is an "addictive and time wasting form of entertainment who…

"That can't be true because it just can't be", then?

Re: The Lost Chapter

#233

Post by cuergas »

autophil wrote: post #229
tptacek wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only in places like Hacker News is there a consensus opinion that Facebook is "a new addictive and time wasting form of entertainment who's contribution society is null or negative". Facebook has increased the number of interactions I have with my extended family by roughly a factor of infinity --- and I'm one of those nerds who's run a mailing list for his family since the mid '90s. A more concise way to say what 'g…

Only in places like Hacker News is there a consensus opinion that Facebook is "a new addictive and time wasting form of entertainment who's contribution society is null or negative" You either know that statement is untrue but lie anyway, or you haven't been outside and seen a tree in real life for over a year. Many people of all walks of life think Facebook is an "addictive and time wasting form of entertainment who…

Writing style is important when trying to persuade. But for the discerning reader looking for facts, content is what counts.

The top post shifts the focus from a blogger's (Greenspan's) account of his dealings with Mark Zuckerberg to "founders guilt".

And this comment is now addressed to the relative merits of Facebook.

The discussion moved from discussing Greenspan's account to discussing founder's guilt and the merits of social networking. How does this happen?

Those topics are not the point of Greenspan's post.

It's a simple tale of how one founder treated someone else, from whom he took advice and ideas.

It's a tale that's familiar (perhaps painfully familiar to some), because we've heard others tell it before as it also happened to them.

Keep changing the subject. Or trying to justify how Zuckerberg treated people by looking at the end result (which no one denies was due in part to great luck).

By all means do what Zuckerberg did and build something big. But don't screw other people over the way he did, call users "dumb fucks" and disregard their privacy as a trivial matter because you think that's a prerequisite to success. It isn't.

Re: The Lost Chapter

#234

Post by larrys »

grellas wrote: post #220
corporalagumbo wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, here you are: People should stop trying to make entrepreneurs feel guilty for not living up to their personal ethical standards. One of the advantages of our free society is that people can choose to work on weighty issues or fluffy diversions. As long as you abide by the law, you should not be criticised for the style of business you decide to pursue. If a lot of people can make money from social networking th…

Here is my shortened version: "What I choose to call 'Founder's Guilt Complex' is a false sense of guilt imposed on founders who are told that the only worthwhile venture is one aimed at shaking up the world - I say, relax and use your talents to build the business you want. Keep it legal and do aspire to more in life than that. But forget about the censors. Like the Puritans of old, they would put you in a straightj…

"it is important to develop it and not simply state a summary of it."

One suggestion I do have to help with readability (and with someone deciding whether they want to read the entire comment) is to place a summary (longer than a sentence) at the beginning of what you are writing if it is long and detailed.

I've found that this practice is helpful not only when writing to customers, but when writing to "important people" who most likely aren't going to want to take the time to read an entire detailed CYA type email with my opinion on something they have asked me about. That way if they want, they can dig further. And if anything happens it's on them if they did not read the fine print and only followed the summary to make a decision.

Re: The Lost Chapter

#235

Post by dasil003 »

cuergas wrote: post #230
dasil003 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The web is a lottery. This is quite an overstatement. You don't simply move to Palo Alto and then have a 1/65,412 chance of starting the next Google. Instead you have to have a great vision, great execution, and great luck. Now Zuckerberg may not have Jobsian vision and execution (or maybe he does, only time will tell), but you can't argue that he executed the hell outta Facebook and he definitely has a vision even…

I agree. /The web is a lottery./d (except I think it's quite possible for someone to do what's been done with Facebook without also being morally bankrupt) But is the rest of the comment an overstatement? Also, you forgot to mention great marketing. In the IM's I believe both of them at one point agree that great visionary ideas, no matter how well they are executed, (alas) do not market themselves.

No I don't disagree with anything else.

Re: marketing, meh, I think Facebook pretty much went viral. Maybe there was more conscious effort there than I give it credit for, but it doesn't strike me as important for Facebook's rise.

Re: The Lost Chapter

#236

Post by larrys »

tptacek wrote: post #223
corporalagumbo wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, here you are: People should stop trying to make entrepreneurs feel guilty for not living up to their personal ethical standards. One of the advantages of our free society is that people can choose to work on weighty issues or fluffy diversions. As long as you abide by the law, you should not be criticised for the style of business you decide to pursue. If a lot of people can make money from social networking th…

As you can see, not only did you miss his point, you injected two points that he didn't make. It is also very hard to rationalize how your version is "better" than his; in particular, it does an extremely poor job of making its point. "As long as you abide by the law, you should not be criticized"? Approximately 0% of all HN readers agree with that, including George Grellas, who has written persuasively on HN against…

"Do you want to try again".

You said:

"Write it better.

Do it and I'll donate $1000"

Perhaps you could state the specifics of who is the judge, or the definition of "better".

Quickest way of course would be to have PG be the judge but I'm guessing that's not your idea.

Re: The Lost Chapter

#237

Post by dumb_dumb »

GFischer wrote: post #215
seiji wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careful, you'll bring the HN grellas lovers down on you. grellas is the most selfless and erudite among us. Attempting to argue, rebut, or piddlepaddle one of his comments reflects more on the commenter than on the point they are trying to make. The only proper response to a grellas comment is "Thank you."

While grellas is indeed learned and I do appreciate his sharing with us, I disagree that trying to argue or rebut his arguments necessarily has to be wrong. Were I to disagree with one of grellas' comments, I would actually go something like "Thank you for posting. However (rebuttal) ... :) " Also, lawyers / advocates are much better trained than us to write arguments :) , it's their job ! but that doesn't necessaril…

I think seiji was joking. It is sarcasm.

Re: The Lost Chapter

#238

Post by dumb_dumb »

tptacek wrote: post #232
autophil wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only in places like Hacker News is there a consensus opinion that Facebook is "a new addictive and time wasting form of entertainment who's contribution society is null or negative" You either know that statement is untrue but lie anyway, or you haven't been outside and seen a tree in real life for over a year. Many people of all walks of life think Facebook is an "addictive and time wasting form of entertainment who…

"That can't be true because it just can't be", then?

I think what he's saying is if you go outside and look at a tree, then the truth will be revealed to you. No need to do this if you've seen a tree in the last year though. But perhaps I read his comment wrong.

Re: The Lost Chapter

#239

Post by tptacek »

larrys wrote: post #236
tptacek wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you can see, not only did you miss his point, you injected two points that he didn't make. It is also very hard to rationalize how your version is "better" than his; in particular, it does an extremely poor job of making its point. "As long as you abide by the law, you should not be criticized"? Approximately 0% of all HN readers agree with that, including George Grellas, who has written persuasively on HN against…

"Do you want to try again". You said: "Write it better. Do it and I'll donate $1000" Perhaps you could state the specifics of who is the judge, or the definition of "better". Quickest way of course would be to have PG be the judge but I'm guessing that's not your idea.

All I want is a good faith attempt. I don't want a judge. I just don't want to feel like a chump for not spelling out in detail exactly what the terms are.

If you want to be the judge (I know you didn't ask) --- there you go. Poof! You're the judge. If he makes a real good faith attempt at articulating the points Grellas tried to make and you judge it as such, I'm good for the money. :)

Re: The Lost Chapter

#240

Post by w1ntermute »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #218
w1ntermute wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, are you kidding me? If I'm ever buying anything questionable at Walmart, I just use cash. I usually buy condoms from Walmart, and I always use cash (and no, I'm not cheating on my girl). You're not thinking this through.

The point I was making was that with electronic transactions, discovering or infering information about a person from their purchases has just as much value as say working out someon is gay from their friends list or choice of netflix. Use cash. But be aware it is slowly but surely becoming a ghetto.

> Use cash. But be aware it is slowly but surely becoming a ghetto.

How exactly is it becoming a "ghetto"? I have never seen any retail stores or restaurants refuse to take cash. In fact, the only place where I've encountered that issue is for buying gas. In big cities, like NYC, there are still restaurants where they only take cash.

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