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UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

petition.parliament.uk

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Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#231

Post by raesene9 »

jpat wrote: post #143
raesene9 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conservatives didnt need digital id to make id a requirement for voting, labour didnt need digital id to introduce the online safety act. Im not convinced that lack of digital id will deter authoritarian tendencies in uk govs…

FYI, the conservatives introduced the Online Safety Act. Its provisions came into force under a labour government.

Yep I was disappointed with that, but it does show that both of the main traditional UK parties have the same problems here (haven't looked into the LibDem position on this one)

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#233

Post by raesene9 »

Arch-TK wrote: post #124
raesene9 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I agree a system, if implemented, should not depend on a tie to Apple or Google, however, I'm not aware that detailed implementation guidance has been produced as yet which would require that tie, although I could have missed that. I'd hope that a system as implemented is as technologically neutral as possible. Good on you for avoiding the smartphone tie on banking though, it's getting increasingly hard for decent…

They haven't specifically said anything, but they have directly compared the ID to phone based payment card systems, which on the google side do rely strictly on a google-blessed android build[0][1][2]. It's also incredibly popular in the security industry (I know, I work in it) to claim that every possible app in existence must: * Obfuscate * Do root detection and refuse to work * Detect attempts to attach a debugge…

I agree that reliance on non-UK based companies (Apple/Google) is a problem, but to me that's not specific to digital ID. We already have age verification relying on mobile apps, via the online safety act, just not ones implemented or managed by the UK gov, instead managed by non-UK corps with the data going offshore

For me having ones managed by the UK gov filling those functions would be preferable to the current situation, and that's not to say I want more privacy intrusions but to say I'd rather have more UK control over the data people have to give up for various services and functions.

Whilst more tech/privacy/security focused people will opt-out of that as much as possible, the realistic fact is that probably 95%+ of the UK population don't care about concerns around Apple/Google, they just want the functionality provided, so for that group it would be better if the apps were run from the UK, ideally by an org not motivated by making more money from them every quarter :)

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#234

Post by n4r9 »

oncallthrow wrote: post #133
kimixa wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But on the other hand there genuinely have been many people arrested (and in some cases convicted) under these laws for statements that are shockingly milquetoast. Care to name some? The vast majority of cases I've looked into end up being a lot more than the initially presented "They Were Arrested For Saying Bad Words On The Internet!" story pushed on the internet. In fact, I can't remember a single one where ther…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-46959556... is one example of a successful prosecution. There are many more cases of harassment by the police or arrests, the most recent example that comes to mind being Graham Linehan. These are clearly not as bad as prosecutions, but still create a chilling effect.

Linehan was arrested for inciting violence. He encouraged people to punch trans women.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#235

Post by raesene9 »

mulmen wrote: post #118
raesene9 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conservatives didnt need digital id to make id a requirement for voting, labour didnt need digital id to introduce the online safety act. Im not convinced that lack of digital id will deter authoritarian tendencies in uk govs…

It’s not that the lack of digital ID prevents anything it’s that the digital ID makes abuse even easier .

Possibly, although they don't seem very slowed down at the moment...

My feeling is though that digital ID can have benefits which shouldn't be discounted when considering it. Specifically some people have problems with current age verification due to lack of things like passports and driver's licenses which are often used as stand-ins for digital ID.

Also it can make a lot of very nonsensical processes better. Things were companies still insist on physical signatures as though those are good security measures, that could be replaced with digital signatures tied to an identity, which might actually provide some security benefits.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#236

Post by tomatocracy »

reorder9695 wrote: post #89
skeletal88 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our system in Estonia works well. I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. Some have explained it with a lack of trust between citizens and the country. But without such digital id it is impossible to have such digital government services as we have here. The government services need to verify and autheticate the citizen, so they only access their own data and…

The UK government has justified this with reducing the amount of illegal workers. To work legally currently you need an NI number, this is not an improvement on that system other than requiring everyone to have a phone (probably with safetynet checks to ensure it can't be running a custom rom). I personally do not trust the government one little bit and am sure they'll find some way to abuse this, as they have just a…

> To work legally currently you need an NI number

More than this, employers are already required to verify right to work when they employ someone, either by physically seeing a passport or by means of an existing government system which allows them to verify visa status with an online "share code". They can be fined if they don't.

There's zero reason to believe employers which currently ignore this requirement (and likely minimum wage etc as well) will suddenly start complying because there's a "digital ID" instead.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#237

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #119
reorder9695 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK government has justified this with reducing the amount of illegal workers. To work legally currently you need an NI number, this is not an improvement on that system other than requiring everyone to have a phone (probably with safetynet checks to ensure it can't be running a custom rom). I personally do not trust the government one little bit and am sure they'll find some way to abuse this, as they have just a…

>given their recent penchant for arresting protesters? A protest group attacked a military base causing £millions of damage. They got censured, as a terrorist organisation. "Protestors" decided they wanted to support that specific organisation, taking focus away from their message and chasing after something the government simply can't countenance: allowing protestors to ruin our defensive capabilities, at immense ex…

In glad you used scare quotes around the word "terrorists", suggesting you are as cynical about this absurd misuse of the term as the rest of us. That's the actual issue here. Yes, PA's acts of civil disobedience should be punished according to law, but classing an organisation as "terrorist", based on one (?) incident that appears to have spread literally zero terror, is appalling behaviour from a pitiful, authoritarian government.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#238

Post by n4r9 »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #176
teamonkey wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot be arrested for sending “any message online that anyone could find insulting or offensive”. That’s not what the law says. You can be arrested for spreading hate speech, inciting violence, sending illegal media or harassment online. All of the arrests mentioned in this thread in relation to these acts have been campaigns of intimidation, harassment and calls to violence, not simply saying something “insulti…

The police are overreaching massively. They are making 30 arrests a day and "interview" many more. We do not rely on the ECHR to protect our free speech. If we did the UK would no longer be a democracy. I'm offended by the suggestion that our democracy and society is so fragile that without them we would have no rights. Expect a police raid very soon.

The "30 arrests a day" or "12000 arrests a year" stat is wildly misleading. I've addressed it before here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41488099

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#239

Post by raxxorraxor »

skeletal88 wrote: post #80
dijit wrote: post #3

As well as the Estonia eID system works (aside from that time it got hacked[0] and that other time they leaked all the photos[1]) and how well a digital (non-government) system works in Scandinavia… I have to say… As a Dual British/Swedish Citizen, I really do not trust the UK government. They have proven over and over and over, that at every opportunity presented they will increase their own authority. I don’t belie…

Our system in Estonia works well. I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. Some have explained it with a lack of trust between citizens and the country. But without such digital id it is impossible to have such digital government services as we have here. The government services need to verify and autheticate the citizen, so they only access their own data and…

Problem with a digital ID is that I don't want to use it beyond government service. But now there is discussion that people need to identify themselves for any and all online services.

If an ID is proliferated the legislative change to force ID checks is minimal. If it weren't just Estonia and government ID would be more widely spread, it would take less than 24h for the EU to enforce borders online.

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