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Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

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Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#231

Post by southernplaces7 »

frozenseven wrote: post #223
southernplaces7 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trying to convince some tech people about how artistic creation works, and why it's more than just the right amount of "optimization" of bits for rapid results, is about as pointless as trying to make a chimpanzee understand the intricacies of Bach. The reductiveness of some of you is amusing, but also grotesque in the context of what art should mean for human experience.

There's no magical line between "tech people" and "art people". The gatekeeping here is getting desperate as hell when you're now forced to cite Bach.

I don't think you really understood what I was saying, or what you're even talking about. I've got nothing to "gatekeep" and a defense of skill over automated regurgitation in creating things certainly isn't gatekeeping. People can use whatever tools they like, but they should keep in mind what distinguishes knowing how to create something from having it done for you at the metaphorical push of a button.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#232

Post by southernplaces7 »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #202
southernplaces7 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Some of the CG art that I see nowadays, is every bit as impressive as the Great Masters. Really? Except the minor part in which a great master spent months to years creating one of his works, instead of a literally mindless digital system putting it together (in digital, no pigments here) instantly. The technology is impressive, sure, but I see nothing artistically impressive about it, or emotionally satisfying abou…

This is not something I feel like arguing about. We’ll never agree. I’m an artist (the old-fashioned kind). That’s where I come from, so my viewpoint is colored by my own experience and training.

If you're an actual artist, who's taken the time to paint and learn its intricacies, yet you're still just as impressed by an automated CG rendering of a work in Old Master style vs. one really done by a dedicated human hand, then you either hate the thing you learned because something about it frustrated you, or you have no clue about forming qualitative measurements of skill.

Also, "old-fashioned"? This to imply that someone rendering painterly visuals in seconds with AI is some new kind of artist? If so, then no, what they do isn't art to begin with. That at least requires an act of effortful creation.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#233

Post by onion2k »

TrackerFF wrote: post #205

I'm a musician, and have been for 25+ years. In fact, I made a living of music before eventually getting my education and working in tech. I've played around with Suno for a couple of months. It works for some things, but to me - it just doesn't give any sense of...accomplishment? I'd much rather sit down with my instruments, and come up with the stuff myself. What is more, I get no feel of ownership. It is not me th…

It is not me that's making music..

AI is a shortcut from an idea to something that resembles your idea in solid form. If your goal is to create something and get a sense of accomplishment from that creative act then AI will never work for you because the artistic process is exactly what the AI shortcut is short-cutting around.

On the other hand, that AI shortcut is circumventing decades of practice, so if you're at the start and you just want the output so you can use it in some way it's awesome.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#234

Post by dang »

nadermx wrote: post #32
bogtap82 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the person you responded to, but these are some examples from someone I know that had accompanying music videos (actual video production) made for them: Sunscreen: https://youtu.be/VBaWtOHPTZw Purple Sunset Over Lake 2: https://youtu.be/lD7rSxPncs4

[flagged]

Please don't break the site guidelines like this, no matter how bad something is or you feel it is.

Maybe you don't owe AI audio creations better, but you owe this community better if you're participating in it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#235

Post by bobxmax »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #201
bobxmax wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only disrespectful if you're a gatekeeper.

defending the idea of complex, nuanced effort for the sake of coherent creation being a demonstration of skill is gatekeeping? I'd love to see programmers reactions to having the measure of their work reduced in such a way as more people vibe code past all the technical nonsense.

Last I checked programming isn't judged as an art.

Your supposed judgment on skill has nothing to do with something's value as an artform

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#236

Post by bobxmax »

Applejinx wrote: post #203
bobxmax wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the hubris of people deciding they can define what music is is insane Banging two sticks together is music. Get off your high horse.

I have claves, which are literally two sticks. I've also got a couple egg shakers, a couple tambourines. Do you have ANY IDEA how hard these things are to play well. I don't care if haphazard bashing of sticks with intent to make noise counts as 'music'. I do care if this whole line of discussion fundamentally equates any such bashing with, say, Jack Ashford. I would be surprised if the name meant anything to you, as…

You seem to be the one who doesn't understand how special it is if you think good music is so simple that AI can zero shot it.

People are mixing and matching these songs and layering their own vocals etc to create novel music. This is barely different from sampling or papier mache or making collages.

People made the same reductionist arguments you're making about electronic music in the early days. Or digital art.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#237

Post by bobxmax »

Aldipower wrote: post #219
bobxmax wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> having an ai steal a melody and add it The fact people still think this is how these models work is astonishing Even if that were true, sampling is an artform and is behind one of the most popular and succesful genres today (hip hop). So is DJ'ing or is that also not a skill? The same puritanism that claimed jazz wasn't music, then rap wasn't music, then EDM wasn't music, blah blah Gatekeepers of what is and isn't…

If you sample you have to credit the creator of the original samples properly. It is astonishing that you do not know that.

What the hell does that have to do with the supposed artistry of it?

Sure, make the models credit the original artists, who cares. That doesn't change if it's an art that should be respected or not.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#238

Post by frozenseven »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #231
frozenseven wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no magical line between "tech people" and "art people". The gatekeeping here is getting desperate as hell when you're now forced to cite Bach.

I don't think you really understood what I was saying, or what you're even talking about. I've got nothing to "gatekeep" and a defense of skill over automated regurgitation in creating things certainly isn't gatekeeping. People can use whatever tools they like, but they should keep in mind what distinguishes knowing how to create something from having it done for you at the metaphorical push of a button.

No, I understand the insults and ad hoc requirements just fine. And I can point you back to the decades and decades of literature about how anyone can be an artist and how anything can be art. The stuff that was openly and readily said until the second people started making art with AI. As for "push of a button", Visarga has already done a decent job of explaining how that's not actually the case. Not that I have any issue with people doing the metaphorical button push either.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#239

Post by MrScruff »

80hd wrote: post #5

I wasn't expecting to, but I got chills listening to some Suno creations from artists who are clearly very talented at using this new medium. Much like those of us hammering away at LLMs who eventually get incredible results through persistence, people are doing the same with these other AI tools, creating in an entirely new way. I'm sure Suno are working hard on this and these AI tools can only come together as fast…

What I've tend to find is that although almost everyone listens to some form of music, the average person tends to like things which are squarely in the middle of the gaussian curve, and that are inherently very predictable as though the creator had chosen the most stastically likely outcome for every creative decision they made while creating it. Similar trends with almost anything creative, cinema, literature, food etc.

This is basically what all the Suno creations sound like to me, which is to say they definitely have a market, but that market isn't for people who have a more than average interest in music.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#240

Post by cowboylowrez »

vunderba wrote: post #100

I consider myself an amateur musician and pulled a decent side hustle teaching piano back in university. I also worked the occasional gig as a cocktail pianist. I've actually had a lot of fun using tools like Suno/Udio as a means of sonic exploration to see how some of my older compositions would sound in different mediums. When I composed this piece of classical music practically a decade ago, it was intended for st…

right now, the line for me is "who makes the riffs". Once that line is blurred and users can inject really appealing whatever it is that humans contribute into actual realized audio tracks, thats when we'll see the first "AI using superstar" numbers on spotify. I don't know where training data is on the legal radar, but I'm also betting that AI winning on this front is likely given how much politics loves AI.
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