Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Open Social

overreacted.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 409 posts

Re: Open Social

#231

Post by nulfrost »

INTPenis wrote: post #173

This has already been covered many times but the design of the AT protocol requires a lot more resources than AP. Meaning it will be reserved for large organizations, while AP has a lower entry of threshold. I want both to thrive, but I prefer AP for small communities.

Hm? Which part of the stack requires a lot of resources? Each part (PDS, Relay, AppServer (AppView)) can be run on a PI. Blacksky (not a large organization by any means and completely community funded) is almost running the entire bluesky stack themselves. IMO there's not much of a reason to run every part of the stack yourself unless you want to be completely independent from bluesky. At the very least if you want to host your own data then that just means running a PDS, which means finding the cheapest VPS you can that fulfills the min spec. Mine costs about 7 bucks per month and I never have to think about it. I'm also running a relay for no reason other than for learning purposes for about 30 bucks a month.

The AppServer, if you want index the full bluesky network (39M users) will run you about 200-300 dollars a month. Again, not really needed but you can if you want. There's also experiments people are trying out to only index smaller parts of the network, e.g. only users you follow which would mean hosting an AppServer would be even cheaper. FWIW, I like both protocols and want them to succeed, anything that gets people off of closed social media.

Re: Open Social

#232

Post by danabramov »

isodev wrote: post #227
BigTuna wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are already working alternate implementations of every protocol component.

So what, the governance is not open and what good is a perfectly written engineering spec without the actual place where people hang out? It’s just a lot of tech jargon masking yet-another “let’s make someone very rich” scheme.

They’re actually making first steps to bring it to IETF: https://docs.bsky.app/blog/taking-at-to-ietf

You can be as cynical as you like but I actually tried hard to avoid tech jargon in the article. I’d appreciate you giving it a read — happy to answer questions or discuss specific concerns.

Re: Open Social

#233

Post by danabramov »

Timwi wrote: post #210
verdverm wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://discord.atprotocol.dev Lots of people there to direct you to specific resources

If you think that there are specific resources, you can just post them here. The fact that you didn't, and instead linked to a corporate walled garden, is very suspicious.

Suspicious of what? What do you expect to find in the corporate walled garden of Discord?

Re: Open Social

#234

Post by danabramov »

rakoo wrote: post #205

This is a beautifully written introduction to the architecture of AT, but after much consideration I will still remain on ActivityPub for the time being. I love the idea to define data formats first, and then build on top of that. It's the only way we should do everything, because if you have the data, everything can be re-built on top. Unfortunately the way AT works is all contained in here: > Social aggregation fea…

Well, atproto can scale down too if you’re content with a subset of data. In other words, it’s not that atproto requires you to have a full network, it’s that it lets you build apps over whole network. ActivityPub doesn’t offer an approach to do that. So we’re not comparing apples to oranges.

I do think that you’re underestimating the value of open network for large-scale aggregation. Yes, for big open world you need big indexes. But indexes don’t have to always done by single entity. Some can be shared. Resources can be pooled for apps that need a materialized index of the same data. We haven’t really seen how this plays out yet because big indexes only existed behind the doors so far.

And if all else fails, limiting the scope (by time or community) works in atproto too. It’s just… not as fun :)

Re: Open Social

#235

Post by yborg »

self_awareness wrote: post #160
popcar2 wrote: post #155

I don't have a horse in which decentralized protocol wins, but while ATProtocol sounds great on paper I'm still inching closer to liking ActivityPub more. I'm pretty active on Lemmy[1] which is quite active and fun to browse 1. 99.99% (literally) of AT users are on Bluesky, which is helmed by a for-profit corporation. The argument is that they don't control the protocol but considering it is THE dominating instance o…

I know that Mastodon is not the same as ActivityPub, but I don't know how can it be treated seriously if it allows disappearing replies. Whatever we write will disappear after some time. Sometimes. Because sometimes not. Maybe it's an implementation problem, I don't know, but it was one of my two reasons for my exit from Mastodon.

It's literally a feature - individual users can set post auto-deletion on their instance. Because a government could suddenly start firing people from their jobs for some shitpost they made a decade ago.

But you have the fact that this is the Internet, and somebody will have archived your post no matter what you or your host instance does. So you can rest assured that whatever you wrote on Mastodon is out there somewhere...

Re: Open Social

#236

Post by Kye »

zhoukekestar wrote: post #230

This is all based on the premise that you maintain ownership of the DNS. Once you lose control of your domain due to legal issues in the relevant country, those references/citations become invalid. However, this is still a great improvement over the current situation.

There's still a way: https://whtwnd.com/bnewbold.net/3lj7jmt2ct72r

It's one of those in-progress things that will get better and easier to use.

Re: Open Social

#237

Post by robertdaniels »

The AT Protocol's approach to decentralized data repositories is excellent for empowering users with greater control, but it also creates vulnerabilities to automated abuse, such as bots disrupting event streams or fabricating repositories to distribute spam. I've integrated Sceptive bl0ck API to access IP and behavioral intelligence, which has reduced false positives from aggressive crawlers by at least 70% on my setup.

Re: Open Social

#238

Post by steveklabnik »

zhoukekestar wrote: post #230

This is all based on the premise that you maintain ownership of the DNS. Once you lose control of your domain due to legal issues in the relevant country, those references/citations become invalid. However, this is still a great improvement over the current situation.

My sibling links a great post on this, but to say it in a slightly shorter way, the core of identity is a DID, not a domain. You can update the domain associated with your DID if you lose control of the DNS and it will all transparently update.

Re: Open Social

#239

Post by dangus »

LightChaser wrote: post #10

Sadly, it's hard to imagine a world where something like this will ever catch on. The target audience for "traditional" social media is very different from the niche of people who want decentralized social media. Most people just use social media as a means to an end and don't really care about the systems behind it. If the answer is that most people should just make a bluesky account, that defeats the whole purpose…

I think the other issue here is that there's a serious question of why bother "upgrading" your social media from closed to open when we've all figured out that it's bad for you, worsens your mood, and generally wastes your time?

If I'm going to delete my Facebook/Instagram account then why am I trying to pick up a new drug to replace it?

Re: Open Social

#240

Post by BrenBarn »

analogpixel wrote: post #142
all2 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So email threads but on a web page, and filtered by subscription instead of senders/receivers. Clever. How can I add this to my website? How do you facilitate discovery? IE, what if I want to know about replies people have made without subscribing to their /social page?

> How do you facilitate discovery? IE, what if I want to know about replies people have made without subscribing to their /social page? That's what makes this system so great, you don't see what other people you don't even know say, and you should be ok with that. Don't look for validation from the trolls on the internet. Reading what random people you don't know say is how you get spam and harassment. > How can I ad…

> That's what makes this system so great, you don't see what other people you don't even know say

But how do you get started? Are you saying you only look at blogs of people who you've met in real life and who told you their blog URL? Even that is unrealistic because lots of blogs link to other blogs. Why should I be okay with following a link from one blog post to another blog post but not okay with seeing a comment on a blog post?

Post reply on HN