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Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

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Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#231

Post by mschuster91 »

jbstack wrote: post #203
jeroenhd wrote: post #54

This crap is why everyone should fear the Apple-like centralisation for software distribution options that other companies like Google and Microsoft are inching towards. Now it's just Iran/Cuba/North Korea, but you're essentially letting the increasingly aggressive American government decide who can or cannot publish software. The Americans are not afraid of adding their political enemies from allied countries to the…

I completely agree, but what can actually be done about this? It feels like it's too late.

Well, the EU has about half a billion people, India and China about 1.5 billion people - all larger markets (by headcount) than the US domestic market, so nothing that any American company can just choose to ignore.

Either of these three markets can set rules on what device manufacturers have to do in order to be allowed to access the market, and they all use that power - China is particularly infamous (with Apple having had to set up a dedicated iCloud instance to which the Chinese government may or may not have a backdoor), India more focuses on the share of production that happens in China, and the EU is seriously tightening the screws on American companies when it comes to arbitrarily denying store access.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#232

Post by m000 »

47282847 wrote: post #195
anal_reactor wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The point is that it is not YOU who is doing it. It’s about separating people from the actions of whoever is in power in their place.

The problem is that as West we (collectively) have double morality standards.

We call foreign governments regimes and their leaders brutal dictators (they might as well be, that's another discussion). But then we are also eager to extract punishment (like the OP describes) from the individuals who live under the regime/dictator, and often have very limited options to act.

Then we call ourselves democracies, shining example to all the world. But we fail to recognize our personal responsibility for the actions of our governments. Because when a warmonger, thug, wannabe dictator or international bully-extraordinaire comes into power in a democracy, we probably could have personally done a lot more to prevent it, with little fear of repercussions, and we didn't.

Democratic values should cut both ways.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#233

Post by mvdtnz »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #156
sfn42 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People always say stuff like this, but from my pov it doesn't matter what the populace thinks. They are directly supporting their government with everything they do. They are producing goods and services, they are the army, they are the government, the people are the country. They have the power to choose who rules them if they want to. Nobody else does. Iranians are responsible for Iran's actions just like Russians…

What should they do ? Stop working, or protest and risk getting killed ? It's easy to call for action from your comfortable life. No, the populace does not bear the same responsibility for the country's actions in all countries. Swiss with direct democracy bear much higher responsibility than systematically oppressed populace in other countries.

[flagged]

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#234

Post by mvdtnz »

reeredfdfdf wrote: post #159
tgma wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most educated Iranians hate their government Where did you get that data from and what do you mean by "hate" in quantifiable terms? (just being "unhappy" with outcomes of certain policies does not mean they would necessarily want to uproot everything for the better)

If you meet educated Iranians, and read news on what's happening in the country, it's pretty obvious. Whether it's "hate" or "deeply dislike" may vary by person.

If it's "obvious" it should be no problem for you to demonstrate it.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#235

Post by constantcrying »

barrenko wrote: post #6
OccamsMirror wrote: post #2

It must be really frustrating be on the receiving end of sanctions. The ugly truth about sanctions is that they punish the people more than the aristocracy. But they're still better than wars.

The point is to get people in those contries to overthrow their leadership. And if your're someone sliding into nasty leadership / government situation you have to realize there will be a consequence to that and that the perception of the ruling party can never be separated from the perception of the people.

Telling people to throw their lives away to provoke a civil war is one of the nastiest rhetorical tricks you hear when people talk about oppressive regimes.

In basically every case a bad government is preferable to the destruction, chaos and death a civil war brings. "Just overthrow your government" is ridiculous plea.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#236

Post by gnfargbl »

reeredfdfdf wrote: post #84

Most educated Iranians hate their government. The problem is that a revolution isn't easy when the government has all the guns, and the military & revolutionary guard remain loyal, and have no problem with shooting masses of innocent civilians to retain their power. Sanctions that worsen things for ordinary people really isn't going to change much in countries like this. It would be much more productive to try turn t…

The primary intent of sanctions isn't to foment revolution -- policymakers are well aware of the reality you outline.

The actual intent of sanctions is to cause economic damage. In that respect this is an account of the sanctions working exactly as intended: they are making it harder for OP to work as a software developer, which makes it harder for the Iranian regime to benefit (directly or indirectly) from the efforts of software developers in Iran.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#237

Post by fransje26 »

danlitt wrote: post #142
jbm wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to agree with this line of reasoning, but then I saw that the same process was used to block war crimes investigators from using Microsoft's software.

Does that affect the reasoning? Even though I think it is profoundly wrong, I am not going to risk 20 years in prison for something realistically nobody is going to care about.

First they came for the Communists, [..]

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/martin-nie...

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#239

Post by fransje26 »

notjosh wrote: post #47
adastra22 wrote: post #20

OP, some context from the other side might be helpful. Yes, there are fines for American companies if they do business with Iranians. That's how sanctions work as I'm sure you're aware. But the story doesn't stop there. If an American finds out they are transacting with a sanctioned individual, or citizens of a sanctioned country like Iran or North Korea, the stakes go up: $1M USD fine and up to 20 years in federal p…

your comment is helpful context, especially as a foreigner. but would you be able to edit the "pounding in the ass" phrase out in future when referring to prison? thank you <3

"pounding in the ass" is a cultural reference to the 1999 movie Office Space.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#240

Post by piokoch »

adastra22 wrote: post #20

OP, some context from the other side might be helpful. Yes, there are fines for American companies if they do business with Iranians. That's how sanctions work as I'm sure you're aware. But the story doesn't stop there. If an American finds out they are transacting with a sanctioned individual, or citizens of a sanctioned country like Iran or North Korea, the stakes go up: $1M USD fine and up to 20 years in federal p…

It's year 2025.

You just open company in Brazil or Argentina and you can purchase whatever you want. Before 1989 communistic countries were overcoming CoCom restrictions in this way. Russia is doing this successfully since 2014. Surely Iran, North Korea are doing the same, this is really a no brainer and today and it is not even hard or costly, as nobody needs to physically travel, money transfers go through Kaiman, Netherlands Antilles, City of London Corp., etc. Nobody is able to track them.

More. Nobody even tries to hide anymore. Germany is openly purchasing Russian oil, branded as "Kazakhstani", through Druzba pipe. The Netherlands is buying Russian gasoline branded as "Indian". France is buying Russian LNG and it is not event trying to pretend that it is not Russian.

We will wait very long for those who will pay this $1M fine or go to prison.

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