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They Thought They Were Free (1955)

press.uchicago.edu

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Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#231

Post by microtonal »

thomassmith65 wrote: post #23
brightball wrote: post #5

I wonder how many people interpret this based on “the other side” rather than objectively?

This post from 2003 has made the rounds several times in recent years... "The 14 Characteristics of Fascism" https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html ...and I recall people reading it and saying they don't see how Donald Trump ticks the boxes. It's all very tedious to complain about when half the electorate supports it. It makes one feel like a nag and a broken record.

Also see Umberto Eco's 14 characteristics of fascism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#232

Post by noobermin »

jebarker wrote: post #133
moomin wrote: post #105

I’ve read the book. It’s genuinely interesting. It’s very interesting to see how people misremember the post-war years. It also contains a) passages that are very much quoted out of context and b) an awful lot of stuff about “national character” that is… questionable. I highly recommend actually reading it and understanding what it is and isn’t. Mostly I learned that there’s no simple answers, but also that people an…

> an awful lot of stuff about “national character” that is… questionable. Yes! I recently read this book and was pretty shocked by how much was chalked up to the German character. I came away feeling neither comfort nor increased panic relating to the current US situation. I read the book because I was hand-wringing about how complicit I am just by getting on with my privileged and comfortable life right now. I didn’…

While reading about history can always be enlightening, I sure hope you aren't looking to a book to inform you on what is right or wrong and what your behaviour should be.

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#233

Post by tbrownaw »

permo-w wrote: post #203
moomin wrote: post #105

I’ve read the book. It’s genuinely interesting. It’s very interesting to see how people misremember the post-war years. It also contains a) passages that are very much quoted out of context and b) an awful lot of stuff about “national character” that is… questionable. I highly recommend actually reading it and understanding what it is and isn’t. Mostly I learned that there’s no simple answers, but also that people an…

what made the stuff about national character questionable?

It requires there to be meaningful systematic differences between the people who happen to live in different countries.

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#234

Post by nosianu »

jackstraw42 wrote: post #24
JKCalhoun wrote: post #6

"…it consumed all one’s energies, coming on top of the work one really wanted to do. You can see how easy it was, then, not to think about fundamental things. One had no time." Well, that resonated just a bit. Oh well, back to doomscrolling.

Excerpts from this have popped up in Reddit comments quite a bit the last few years. At first it did feel out of place, but now I'm going going back and listening to Dan Carlin talk about the headspace of society before something like Nazi Germany happens. With all the Executive Orders and lawlessness from the Executive Branch and throughout our federal government with this new regime, it's pretty clear they're attem…

> and who knows what it will look like if we have some kind of civil war out of this.

I don't understand mentions of "civil war" in the public lately (there's even a Hollywood movie about it).

There is only one party controlling the armed forces. I also doubt that any high-ranking officers would take the troops they command out of the command structure and then even order them to attack the government and other troops.

Not to mention that the new administration did some cleanup among the ranks already.

The chances for enough, or any, troops breaking away from the command are very low, no?

So who is going to fight that "civil war"? It looks to me like the government has overwhelming power. At most I see some troops refuse orders to shoot at the American people, or at other troops.

Armed civilians with their puny little guns and little organization are right out as soon as any part of the military joins a fight, that's why I only mentioned the latter to begin with.

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#235

Post by [deleted] »

iwontberude wrote: post #191
bix6 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whereas the Nazi Germany analogy ends with near-inevitable wave function collapse into "start shooting Nazis" Does it? I haven’t thought about shooting anyone. I would like to see more widespread awareness, protesting, and a general strike.

If the oligarchs saw Trump unable to break a general strike and it was destroying the economy, maybe they would let an opposition take hold. Thanks for the downvotes

[deleted]

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#236

Post by gjgtcbkj »

username332211 wrote: post #214
bix6 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whereas the Nazi Germany analogy ends with near-inevitable wave function collapse into "start shooting Nazis" Does it? I haven’t thought about shooting anyone. I would like to see more widespread awareness, protesting, and a general strike.

Have you seen social media's reaction to that murderer Mangione?

The case against has basically fallen apart already. If he’s a murderer why does he walk free? The prosecutors will keep billing hours those. They need a scapegoat.

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#237

Post by ElevenLathe »

username332211 wrote: post #214
bix6 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whereas the Nazi Germany analogy ends with near-inevitable wave function collapse into "start shooting Nazis" Does it? I haven’t thought about shooting anyone. I would like to see more widespread awareness, protesting, and a general strike.

Have you seen social media's reaction to that murderer Mangione?

Alleged murderer*

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#238

Post by drankl »

unethical_ban wrote: post #139
pessimizer wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

On biological males in women's sports I think more people can agree on this. But you're handwaving away the fact that conservative political parties are using trans existence as a wedge issue.

[flagged]

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#239

Post by api »

mystraline wrote: post #218
api wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That mostly mapped to population density, which maps to blue states because the main divide is urban vs rural. More intense pandemic measures make more sense where density is higher. But did we even have any true lockdowns in the US? Maybe in some cities, but we had nothing close to China or even Australia. Were there any places in the US with actual curfews where you were not allowed to leave, or anything like that?…

In Indiana, there were groceries that had early morning for healthcare workers and elderly only. That helped limit spread as well. Again, we had no real lockdowns. School was remote, which had its own really bad effects on early socialization. I'm not at all sure what we should have did differently. Technically a hard lockdown for 6 weeks could mostly eradicate it everywhere. But a lot of people can't handle that. Wh…

There are things we could have done very differently but it’s all Monday morning quarterbacking.

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#240

Post by Hikikomori »

m0llusk wrote: post #116

This is a very intense piece, but misses some critical points. Germany after WWI was suffering terribly under reparations that European Allies and the US insisted on. Previously wealthy professionals went broke and begged in the streets for scraps. When Hitler swept aside reparations there was a great economic updraft as Germans rebuilt their economy and got back to work. The politics of the time was driven by the ec…

The German economy was a house of cards waiting to fall, there was no real economic boom that could be sustained. When they annexed Austria they looted their gold reserves and continued to do so through Europe to sustain their economy.
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