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996

lucumr.pocoo.org

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Re: 996

#231

Post by esseph »

NaomiLehman wrote: post #202
jackienotchan wrote: post #123

The first two quotes are from founders of: - BrowserUse - Founded 2024 - Greptile - Founded 2023 The third quote is from a VC who has never founded a startup himself and has a clear interest in pushing founders to trade work-life balance for his own quick returns. So none of these people worked on anything longer than 2 years. I wonder what will happen if we check back in 5–10 years. Will they still be doing and prom…

It's comical that the browser use guy tweeted "crazy salaries, 996" and the highest salary they offer is $320k. In SF.

SF or not, that is 5x the US median wage. There's people in the US that would suit up in gladiator garb and fight to death in an arena for that pay.

Re: 996

#232

Post by edoceo »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #137

I'm currently running 10,2,7 because I'm on fire and need to get the things in my head out into the world, but the idea that I would expect anyone I was working with to pull that kind of weight is just insanity. I sit down and the day flies by as I build foundational software, but that's my passion, my quest. I would only expect that sort of intensity from a collaborator asking for a 50/50 split.

Does 10,2,7 mean 10:00h-14:00h seven days a week?

Re: 996

#233

Post by Kwpolska »

HPsquared wrote: post #191
NaomiLehman wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what kind of job, except for some very, very fringe cases like a NASA active mission or an atomic threat, would require a person to pull all-nighters. And how is that productive in the long-term? It's not exactly easy to hire talent.

College trains people for this. Basically anything with strict deadlines. Most of my coursework was done at the latest possible time, in the early hours of the morning. I think these workplaces just carry over that vibe.

College doesn’t train you for this, you just suck at time management and planning.

Re: 996

#234

Post by NelsonMinar »

One thing I appreciated at early Google (2001) was how folks mostly worked normal hours. Roughly 8 hours a day 5 days a week. Maybe a bit longer if you wanted to stay for the free dinner. Maybe you checked email at home in the evening or had a week of being on call. But in general the company did just fine on a humane schedule.

(There were exceptions, particularly the product folks working on early AdWords partnerships. But even in ads most of the engineers kept to more regular hours. I certainly did.)

Re: 996

#235

Post by lvl155 »

I think it’s hilarious that CCP companies tout 996. Wasn’t the whole point of communism to avoid slave labor? Let me tell you there’s at least two thousand years of enterprise history to demonstrate how people sucker others to do work for effectively free.

Re: 996

#236

Post by Kwpolska »

SomaticPirate wrote: post #184
Aurornis wrote: post #23

When founders put 996 in their job descriptions or Tweet about their 996 culture it’s a helpful signal to avoid that company. The only time I’d actually consider crazy schedules was if I was the founder with a huge equity stake and a once in a lifetime opportunity that would benefit from a short period of 996. For average employees? Absolutely not. If someone wants extraordinary hours they need to be providing extrao…

We need to collate this. Is there a repo where we can mention companies that do this? I’ve talked to HR reps who extol their amazing work life balance only to find engineering is expected to work close to a 996

And can we include on-call in the list as well?

Re: 996

#237

Post by [deleted] »

Kapura wrote: post #22
stego-tech wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re removed from the realities of the working class. They have staff, live in a separate bubble from their workers with different social circles, different services, different mores and norms. Executives make shitty decisions because they surround themselves with others who view wealth as a leaderboard to be climbed and flaunted, and have no fucking clue how difficult things are for the people doing the actual wo…

maybe i've spent too much time trying to make computers operate efficiently, but it strikes me that if a process a) takes more time than should be necessary and b) produces sub-optimal results, we should maybe pursue other processes. and stop paying these idiots 7+ figures.

[deleted]

Re: 996

#238

Post by throwawaybob420 »

graemep wrote: post #205
whstl wrote: post #177

996 is just theater for investors. Saw this happening even at YC companies. There was always that stupid expectation of overworking, staying until 9. The reality is that people twiddle thumbs. And the disorganization and micromanagement power plays are enough to negate any additional worked hour. This ranges from pure disorganization in terms of what to build to having 3 hour meetings with the whole fucking company w…

> 996 is just theater for investors. Investors who have not heard of the research into productivity that says long hours have no significant benefit for skilled work? Who have not heard of diminishing returns? Who have no experience of the reality of working long hours themselves?

Investors are dipshits more often than not. Just because someone has money to throw doesn’t mean they know much about many things.

Re: 996

#239

Post by midnitewarrior »

I see all the equity for 996, but if you burnout before you vest, it's worth nothing.

I'm curious if this is a calculated move by startups to preserve equity and get some people going crazy pushing your product forward rapidly.

Re: 996

#240

Post by throwawaybob420 »

malthaus wrote: post #222
whstl wrote: post #177

996 is just theater for investors. Saw this happening even at YC companies. There was always that stupid expectation of overworking, staying until 9. The reality is that people twiddle thumbs. And the disorganization and micromanagement power plays are enough to negate any additional worked hour. This ranges from pure disorganization in terms of what to build to having 3 hour meetings with the whole fucking company w…

what do you mean "even at YC companies" - they are the first to jump on any bandwagon hype train VC's are on.

100%. You can identify what fads are going to hit critical mass based on the amount of YC companies pushing that same particular thing.
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