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Not paying with cash

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Re: Not paying with cash

#231

Post by IAmBroom »

devilbunny wrote: post #78
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article and none of the comments mention rewards yet, which are the biggest reason to use cards! In my observation being that much incentivized by the reward system seems to be a very US-American thing. In Germany, I have never heard anybody seriously talking about that they love the reward system of their credit card. I would claim that at most some (but I think rather few) people in Germany consider some very…

Credit card financial protections for Americans are one of the most strongly pro-customer sets of laws we have in the US. The rewards are a nice way to get some of your money back, but you really can’t be cleaned out by fraud on actual credit cards (not debit cards using the MC/Visa logo and payment system). “That is an unauthorized charge, please cancel the card” is perfectly acceptable. In theory you are on the hoo…

And to further this point: PayPal tries to position itself as "another flavor" of credit, but has none of these protections.

In fact, PayPal binds you to their in-house mediation of fraud claims. I was required to ship $60 worth of merchandise back to the fraudster in China to receive a refund, but the cheapest shipping available to me was $50.

Re: Not paying with cash

#232

Post by IAmBroom »

seabass-labrax wrote: post #76
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article and none of the comments mention rewards yet, which are the biggest reason to use cards! In my observation being that much incentivized by the reward system seems to be a very US-American thing. In Germany, I have never heard anybody seriously talking about that they love the reward system of their credit card. I would claim that at most some (but I think rather few) people in Germany consider some very…

This point - that EMV cards have the effect of siphoning money out of many countries to the USA in payment processing fees - is one of the primary motivations behind the development of Wero[1]. For those that haven't come across it yet, it's a new payments system based on 'instant' SEPA wire transfers. It is starting to gain ground now, particularly in Germany and the Benelux. I'm not aware of any smartcard-based imp…

> This point - that EMV cards have the effect of siphoning money out of many countries to the USA in payment processing fees...

Money isn't sent to the USA. It is sent to the banks that own your particular credit card. Many of these are certainly in the USA, but your statement makes it sound somehow patriotic/anti-USA to avoid using credit cards.

Re: Not paying with cash

#233

Post by IAmBroom »

JustExAWS wrote: post #137
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article and none of the comments mention rewards yet, which are the biggest reason to use cards! In my observation being that much incentivized by the reward system seems to be a very US-American thing. In Germany, I have never heard anybody seriously talking about that they love the reward system of their credit card. I would claim that at most some (but I think rather few) people in Germany consider some very…

That’s because most countries cap merchant fees so credit card companies can’t offer as lucrative awards

Credit card companies aren't aching to give more money to customers, but unfortunately can't because of mean old countries.

Re: Not paying with cash

#234

Post by JustExAWS »

IAmBroom wrote: post #233
JustExAWS wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because most countries cap merchant fees so credit card companies can’t offer as lucrative awards

Credit card companies aren't aching to give more money to customers, but unfortunately can't because of mean old countries.

A credit card company is not going to loose money on each transaction.

Re: Not paying with cash

#235

Post by al_borland »

Izkata wrote: post #222
al_borland wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree 100%. I am very annoyed by it. When I go to the website for the card they proudly proclaim that it uses a signature, as if it means something. It’s also sold as a travel card, and the signature makes it a pain for travel. I had a hell of a time buying a train ticket at the airport in Germany. None of the machines worked, I assume because they wanted a PIN, so I had to try and hunt down a person who would sell…

It's a remnant from when physical card theft was the main concern: You're supposed to sign the back of the card when you first get it, then each time the receipt is signed the cashier is supposed to compare the signature on the receipt to the one on the card. I remember as a teen reading some stories about how cashiers wouldn't accept cards that didn't have a signature on the back and made people sign it right there…

That’s what’s supposed to happen, but in my 20 years of using a credit card I can only recall having my signature checked like this one time. I assumed the person was new. She ended up getting the manager and I had to show multiple forms of ID to prove I was me. It was a whole thing.

Now that we sign electronic pads, it’s even worse. There is no record of the signature on the back of the card to compare to, no one looks at it, and most of the pads are sensitive enough to sign properly. It’s a really expensive rubber stamp.

Re: Not paying with cash

#236

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

account42 wrote: post #212
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have similar concerns, but I think it's the payment conglomerates you have to worry about. Visa knows how much you spent, Fiserv knows what you bought.

It's not just Fiserv, there are often others involved as well. Even the merchant gets more data as they now have a fairly good way to identify you and correlate transactions.

Sure but that's only going to be among transactions that you made with that merchant.

Re: Not paying with cash

#237

Post by rendaw »

lofties wrote: post #59
lisbbb wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Japanese people largely still use cash, don't they?

This is no longer true. With the advance of "cashless" systems that were heavily pushed and promoted by the government, cash payments have dropped significantly![0] Cashless payments now sit near 50%, up from 16% 10 years ago. [0] https://www.meti.go.jp/english/press/2025/0331_001.html

But not the anonymous, offline, accessible payment systems this thread is about.

The online, ad infested phone-app-only, less accessible "cashless" systems like paypay.

Even today the only place you can buy food with your pasmo/suica card is at the convenience store. Why is that?

Re: Not paying with cash

#238

Post by rchaud »

I don't think touching cash is any more disgusting than opening a door at a public business, holding a rail on a subway or holding the gas nozzle while refilling a car. I find cash to be easier to budget with for discretionary expenses as you can simply see what's left without needing to route expenses through an app.

Re: Not paying with cash

#239

Post by mixmastamyk »

bob1029 wrote: post #202

From a business owner perspective, it can be cheaper to operate a card only business than a cash only business, especially if you intend to do it legally and with a proper bank. There is no bank on earth that will service a cash heavy (only) business for free. The cost/risk/fees of moving the physical cash around can be worse than what Visa charges. You could go one step further and think about it from the bank persp…

I often did the cash drop for a local restaurant. It certainly wasn’t free, but having a lackey drop a few thousand in a plastic bag into the night slot was affordable. It’s not quite enough money to worry that it might be stolen regularly.

The bank has counting machines and a safe built in the last century as well.

Re: Not paying with cash

#240

Post by nunez »

lol; like dad sneakers, what's old is new again.

I did this back in 2014 or so when I was, ironically, more strapped for cash and needed to debug my budget (thanks, student loans!). i stopped because carrying change is annoying as fuck, losing cash is annoying at best and painful at worst, and tracking cash purchases is actually much harder than purchases made on the card.

instead, i used my debit card for purchases (couldn't spend beyond my means with it) until my income situation improved. i use one credit card exclusively now (and pay it down at the end of the month).

this was before businesses started going card-only post COVID. that's another reason why i wouldn't do this today.

(I built a Go-based expense tracker years ago that turns all bank alerts and receipts into, then, transactions in Expensify and, now, rows in Google Sheets. I'm able to track literally every single card transaction I make as well as reconcile purchases with their receipts. this is impossible with cash.)

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