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I Am An AI Hater

anthonymoser.github.io

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Re: I Am An AI Hater

#231

Post by rsoto2 »

petralithic wrote: post #53
jkingsman wrote: post #8

I appreciate seeing this point of view represented. It's not one I personally hold, but it is one a LOT of my friends hold, and I think it's important that it be given a voice, even if -- perhaps especially if -- a lot of people disagree with it. One of my friends sent me a delightful bastardization of the famous IBM quote: A COMPUTER CAN NEVER FEEL SPITEFUL OR [PASSIONATE†]. THEREFORE A COMPUTER MUST NEVER CREATE AR…

I've talked to people like this and when you dig deep enough, it's a fear of the economic effects of it, not actually any strongly held belief of AI inherently not being intelligent or emotional. Similarly, and I'm speaking generally here, ask artists about coding AI and they won't care, and ask programmers about media generation AI and they also won't care. That's because AI outside their domain does not (ostensibly…

I care because it's outright theft. That's what AI companies do and what you are an accessory to.

AI is not intelligent or emotional. It's not a "strongly held belief" it simply hasn't been proven.

Re: I Am An AI Hater

#232

Post by aaroninsf »

Genuine response: it is hard for me to read this sort of screed, and not wonder,

are the authors genuinely or merely performatively ignorant?

Ignorant, to be precise, of the often comical extent to which they very obviously construct—to their own specification and for their purposes—the object of their hostility...?

While dismissing—in a fashion that renders their reasoning vacuous—the wearying complexity of the actually-observable complex reality they think they are attacking?

One of the most obvious "tells" in this sort of thing is the breezy ease with which abstract _theys_ are compounded and then attacked.

I'm sorry, Anthony; there is no they. There is a bewildering and yes, I get it, frightening and all but inconceivable number of actors, each pursuing their own aims, sometimes in explicit or implicit collusion, sometimes competitively or adversarially...

...and that is but the most banal of the dimensions within which one might attempt to reason about "AI."

Frustration is warranted; hostility towards the engines of surveillance capital and its pleasure with advancing fascism is more than warranted; applications of AI within this domain and services rendered by its corporate builders—all ripe and just targets.

But it is a mistake that renders the critique and position dismisable to slip from specifics to generalities and scarecrows.

Re: I Am An AI Hater

#233

Post by sindriava »

didibus wrote: post #199
sindriava wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might be rational, but taking things out of context as much as happens with any AI / environment narrative gives off a strong "arsenic-free cauliflower" smell.

If you take a report like this: https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/ai-has-high-da... You can: 1. Dismiss it by believing the projections are very wrong and much too high 2. Think 20% of all energy consumed isn't that bad. 3. Find it concerning environmentally All takes have some weight behind them in my opinion. I don't think this is a case of "arsenic-free cauliflower", maybe unless you claim #1, but that…

I can't speak for you but I'm certainly not qualified to opine on the predictions so I won't address the 20% figure since I don't find it relevant.

> data centers account for 1% to 2% of overall global energy demand

So does the mining industry. Part of that data center consumption is the discussion we are having right now.

I find that in general energy doesn't tend to get spent unless there's something to be gained from it. Note that providing something that uses energy but doesn't provide value isn't a counterexample for this, since the greater goal of civilization seems to be discovering valuable parts of the state space, which necessitates visiting suboptimal states absent a clairvoyant heuristic.

I reject the statement that energy use is bad in principle and pending a more detailed ROI analysis of this, I think this branch of the topic has ran its course, at least for me :)

Re: I Am An AI Hater

#234

Post by mrandish »

Although I agree with most of the article's points, I'm not an AI hater. But that's only because AI doesn't incite enough emotion in me to be "hate". It's more apathy or antipathy at worst. I concede that AI can occasionally be useful and, as a technologist, I admit early on there were some 'gee whiz' moments but the constant hype has grown annoying.

Frankly, it's gotten kind of boring and more recently it's to where I don't even like talking about it anymore. Of course, the non-technical general public is split between those who mistakenly think it's much 'smarter' or more capable than it is and those who dismiss it entirely but often for the wrong reasons. The disappointing part is how deeply polarized many of my more experienced technical friends are between one of those two extremes.

On the positive side there's endless over-the-top raving about how incredible AI is and on the negative side overwhelming angst over how unspeakably evil and destructive AI is. These are people who've generally been around long enough to see long-term trends evolve, hype cycles fade, bubbles burst and certain world-ending doom eventually arrive as just everyday annoyance. Yet both extremes are so highly energized on the topic they tend to leap to some fairly ungrounded, and occasionally even irrational, conclusions. Engaging with either type for very long gets kind of exhausting. I just don't think AI is quite as unspeakably amazing as the ravers insist OR nearly as apocalyptic as the doomers fear - but both groups are so into their viewpoint it borders on evangelical obsession - which makes hard for anyone with an informed but dispassionate, measured and nuanced perspective to engage with them.

Re: I Am An AI Hater

#235

Post by petralithic »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #89
jkingsman wrote: post #8

I appreciate seeing this point of view represented. It's not one I personally hold, but it is one a LOT of my friends hold, and I think it's important that it be given a voice, even if -- perhaps especially if -- a lot of people disagree with it. One of my friends sent me a delightful bastardization of the famous IBM quote: A COMPUTER CAN NEVER FEEL SPITEFUL OR [PASSIONATE†]. THEREFORE A COMPUTER MUST NEVER CREATE AR…

I'm not terribly interested in emotional reactions. This is too common of a problem: we think emoting is a substitute for reasoning. Many if not most people believe that if they feel something, then it must be true; the disagreeing party just doesn't "get it". We must learn to reason and make arguments. I am interested in the intelligible content of the thing. Also, AI does not reason. Human beings do.

How can we be sure humans reason?

Re: I Am An AI Hater

#236

Post by utyop22 »

nkohari wrote: post #55

I hate social media and what it's done to the internet, but I accept that it is now a part of the fabric of society. You can't unring the bell. (In fact, here I am, saying I hate social media on a social media site.) In the end, it doesn't matter what you or I think. You can hate AI, but it's not going away. The industry needs more skeptical, level-headed people to help figure out how best to leverage the technology…

Ah you have no bias do you? Afterall, you are the founder of an AI startup.

Re: I Am An AI Hater

#237

Post by saint_yossarian »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #160
randcraw wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Picasso's Guernica was born of hate, his hate of war, of dehumanization for petty political ends. No computer will ever empathize with the senseless inhumanity of war to produce such a work. It must forever parrot.

> No computer will ever empathize with the senseless inhumanity of war My computer does. What evidence would change your mind?

What evidence convinced you?

Re: I Am An AI Hater

#238

Post by stronglikedan »

andybak wrote: post #225
jkingsman wrote: post #8

I appreciate seeing this point of view represented. It's not one I personally hold, but it is one a LOT of my friends hold, and I think it's important that it be given a voice, even if -- perhaps especially if -- a lot of people disagree with it. One of my friends sent me a delightful bastardization of the famous IBM quote: A COMPUTER CAN NEVER FEEL SPITEFUL OR [PASSIONATE†]. THEREFORE A COMPUTER MUST NEVER CREATE AR…

> replaced with a slightly less salacious word than the original in consideration for politeness. Please don't. That offends me much more than a very mild word ever could.

I think it's obvious virtue signaling, but I would never let something so insignificant actually offend me. Life's too short.

Re: I Am An AI Hater

#239

Post by racl101 »

tanvach wrote: post #64

I've noticed that the younger you are, the most likely you're in love with AI. So the tide will turn eventually, for better or worse. I talked to someone recently who claims with no irony that 'AI has zero downside'. I don't hate AI. I hate the people who're in love with it. The culture of people who build and worship this technology is toxic.

Not surprising.

From the point of view of a typical, not very curious kid or teen AI seems like a godsend. Now you don't have to put much effort in a lot of things you don't want to do to begin with.

Re: I Am An AI Hater

#240

Post by indoordin0saur »

notfed wrote: post #4

"I strongly feel that AI is an insult to life itself." - Hayao Miyazaki I'm going to start using this quote.

He didn't say this about AI generally as far as I know. He was shown some kid's art project using an earlier AI and it just looked extremely uncanny in the way that is typical of bad generative art.

So that's definitely a misquote, though I wouldn't be surprised if Miyazaki dislikes AI.

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