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Newsmax agrees to pay $67M in defamation case over bogus 2020 election claims

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Re: Newsmax agrees to pay $67M in defamation case over bogus 2020 election claims

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't change the discrimination logic. No one imagines that everyone is just fine with what is implied to be the same level of discrimination in accessing air travel that they state is going on when voter ID requirements are in force. And yet.

You don’t have to be fine with it. I don’t like having to take off my shoes, but I have to because it’s not a constitutionally protected right. Voter ID is also not about election integrity. It’s about adding road blocks to voting.

You aren't following the conversation, and your own rhetorical examples are becoming confused beyond comprehension as a result.

I disagree in regard to your assertion as to what voter ID is about.

Re: Newsmax agrees to pay $67M in defamation case over bogus 2020 election claims

#232
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your individual opinion of Australia, name calling, appeal to group behavior, and vague "things that work everywhere" doesn't negate the fact that not voting is a form of protest (or often just a simple preference) that a healthy democracy shouldn't have an issue with. After all, if nine months of partisan rioting in an election season is kosher before a "free and fair election", which leads to over twenty five death…

> not voting is a form of protest I very much agree. In Australia you can go along, write "screw you" on the ballot, job done, attendance recorded. And the fine if you miss it is only a few bucks. It's a good nudge get everyone participating.

No. One has to be publicly seen to not-vote for the "not-voting" to be a protest.

The protest is in the visible lack of turnout, and more relevantly in the lack of turnout of voting blocks that have historically shown up. Still agree?

I know that this is hard for you guys.

So I'll simplify it with an example scenario, which also tests your democratic moral logic.

Which is more democratic?

An election of Kim Jong Un in North Korea with 100% compulsory turnout. Or

An election of Kim Jong Un in North Korea with 5% non-compulsory turnout?

The answer, very obviously, is that the scenario with 5% non-compulsory turnout is more democratic.

This is the correct answer because the 95% that did not show up to vote would be seen by the world as a protest vote against a corrupt system. This is a necessary and valuable democratic mechanism. As it deprives Kim Jon Un's corrupt government of democratic legitimacy.

As it stands, North Korea has 100% voter turnout.

Do you want to veer toward or away from North Korea's model of "democracy"?

What you have in Australia is publicly visible compulsory turnout, period. Aside from whatever you might do privately in the election booth.

You can claim that Australia is a model of non-corruption. Maybe it is.

But compulsory turnout sure is a large step in corrupting elections, and one could argue a hallmark of corrupt elections. As well as a highly unusual shared characteristic with the most corrupt governments in the World.

Re: Newsmax agrees to pay $67M in defamation case over bogus 2020 election claims

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How would you know if it didn’t? The very nature of the problem means that it’s hidden! Even if it's at a polling place on the day of, it's still a secret ballot. As such, of course it's hidden. It's a secret ballot. What are you going on about?

Absolutely, which is why I oppose mail in ballots. They don't have that property!

Not sure what you mean - every implementation of mail-in ballots I've seen has a doubly sealed pair of envelopes. It's no less secret than pushing a button in a booth. The ballot is physically checked (but not counted) upon receipt and an email/text/etc is sent to confirm delivery with no issues.

Re: Newsmax agrees to pay $67M in defamation case over bogus 2020 election claims

#234
post #230
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. We have Tr*mp because his team is able to successfully motivate angry, hateful, and scared people. There are a lot of these people, they are not smart, and they are mad. MAGA directs that anger. They simply figured out how to enthrall bad people.

Ok, I have a lot more faith in democratic processes. I fundamentally disagree with how the USA is run. I believe it needs to be dismantled and increase the democratic processes. I guess I would wish my state to secede, considering the current failure mode of the federal state, if I were American. This collapse has happened to every empire in history by the way. Or I would probably move to Mexico or Canada or somethin…

Yeah. It's tough for people as most don't even have the means to afford health care or a house. They can't simply relocate. Most Americans now live in fear of abuse. It's a shame.

Re: Newsmax agrees to pay $67M in defamation case over bogus 2020 election claims

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you also oppose a federal election holiday? because pretty much everyone who opposes flexible voting options does so because they want less people voting.

That is an uncharitable view. There are too many federal holidays, but I would support repurposing one, or voting on the weekend.

"Too many federal holidays" - we have 11, which is equal to or fewer than most of our peer nations. We generally get less leave overall as well.

Re: Newsmax agrees to pay $67M in defamation case over bogus 2020 election claims

#236
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not voting is a form of protest I very much agree. In Australia you can go along, write "screw you" on the ballot, job done, attendance recorded. And the fine if you miss it is only a few bucks. It's a good nudge get everyone participating.

No. One has to be publicly seen to not-vote for the "not-voting" to be a protest. The protest is in the visible lack of turnout, and more relevantly in the lack of turnout of voting blocks that have historically shown up. Still agree? I know that this is hard for you guys. So I'll simplify it with an example scenario, which also tests your democratic moral logic. Which is more democratic? An election of Kim Jong Un i…

Utter nonsense mate.

Lack of turnout has never made the blindest bit of difference anywhere, and is indistinguishable from laziness and disinterest in actually democratic countries. But in Australia we can see the numbers who spoiled their votes.

In North Korea Kim Jong Un is free to invent the attendance figures just as much as he is the prevalence of votes for himself.

Re: Newsmax agrees to pay $67M in defamation case over bogus 2020 election claims

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"sanctity of the voting booth"?! > More than one in five polling places have closed over the last decade, according to an ABC News and ABC Owned Stations analysis of data from the Election Administration and Voting Survey, the Center for New Data and the Center for Public Integrity. https://abcnews.go.com/US/protecting-vote-1-5-election-day-p... This is after Shelby County v. Holder, and now states are shutting down…

Yes that’s right, the sanctity of the voting booth. The ability, and indeed the requirement, to vote in private so as to avoid all influence is an important value. Of course, one may prepare beforehand.

At least one state (NC) allows spouses in the voting booth.

Re: Newsmax agrees to pay $67M in defamation case over bogus 2020 election claims

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that’s right, the sanctity of the voting booth. The ability, and indeed the requirement, to vote in private so as to avoid all influence is an important value. Of course, one may prepare beforehand.

At least one state (NC) allows spouses in the voting booth.

That is certainly a very bad idea.

Re: Newsmax agrees to pay $67M in defamation case over bogus 2020 election claims

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, which is why I oppose mail in ballots. They don't have that property!

Not sure what you mean - every implementation of mail-in ballots I've seen has a doubly sealed pair of envelopes. It's no less secret than pushing a button in a booth. The ballot is physically checked (but not counted) upon receipt and an email/text/etc is sent to confirm delivery with no issues.

I'm talking about the "abusive spouse" attack, which can take many forms. So the time between receiving the ballot and mailing it back is when privacy is easily violated.

Re: Newsmax agrees to pay $67M in defamation case over bogus 2020 election claims

#240
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you’re marching one of the most hated republicans in the country around on stage pretending like it’s going to get you more votes, while kicking one of the most popular left-wing online voices out of your convention, I understand why people would get this impression. Dems would rather lose than cede any power at all to the left flank of the party.

The left flank of the party is the problem. Democrats would win more elections if they focused on economic issues.

The left of the Democrats are the people focusing on economic issues. I'm not just saying that to be contrary. The relevant economic issues are things like the decline of unionization and the divergence of wages from productivity and profit. Big money donors don't want you touching that.
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