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Debian 13 “Trixie”

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Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#231

Post by aragilar »

b112 wrote: post #177
raggi wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LTS has had major breaking changes in various areas in recent times too, virtio was badly broken at one point this year, as was a commonly used netlink interface. Hat tip to the Arch kernel contributors who helped track this down and chase upstream, as we had mutually affected users. The debian and ubuntu bug trackers were a wasteland of silence and user contributions throughout the situation, and frustratingly conti…

Bear in mind, LTS and ELTS are not Debian maintained. The wiki has more info on this.

I think they mean the LTS kernels, not Debian's LTS.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#232

Post by MrDarcy »

jlarocco wrote: post #221
ACS_Solver wrote: post #25

Writing this from my Debian system, it's a great distro that has been excellent to me as a daily driver. I switched to Debian 6 after Ubuntu went way downhill and haven't had cause to regret it. I like Debian's measured pragmatism with ideology, how it's a distro of free software by default but it also makes it easy to install non-free software or firmware blobs. I like Debian's package guidelines, I like dpkg, I lik…

> And one of the best parts is, I've never had a Debian system break without it being my fault in some way. Every case I've had of Debian being outright unbootable or having other serious problems, it's been due to me trying to add things from third-party repositories, or messing up the configuration or something else, but not a fault of the Debian system itself. You're not trying hard enough ;-) I have Debian on an…

I’m not trying hard enough. Feel the same as you and GP for two decades and counting.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#233

Post by aragilar »

master_crab wrote: post #29

Debian 13 trixie includes numerous updated software packages (over 63% of all packages from the previous release) I’m not familiar with the metric definition they use, but I’d be worried if close to 100% of the packages they included in bookworm hadn’t been updated in the roughly 2 years between releases. I use Debian for most of my servers, so I’m sure there is a valid explanation of that phrase.

If upstream makes no releases in that time, then there'll be no upgrades.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#234

Post by Arnavion »

int_19h wrote: post #213

I see that systemd is still doing this thing where they are trying to strong-arm all Linux distros into arbitrary stuff that someone decided is the only right way to do something: > 5.2.2. systemd message: System is tainted: unmerged-bin systemd upstream, since version 256, considers systems having separate /usr/bin and /usr/sbin directories noteworthy. At startup systemd emits a message to record this fact: System…

>No option to disable this either, per discussion in https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1085370

The discussion in that bug is that the Debian maintainer (and upstream dev) is open to an upstream patch to add such an option.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#235

Post by Galanwe »

ACS_Solver wrote: post #25

Writing this from my Debian system, it's a great distro that has been excellent to me as a daily driver. I switched to Debian 6 after Ubuntu went way downhill and haven't had cause to regret it. I like Debian's measured pragmatism with ideology, how it's a distro of free software by default but it also makes it easy to install non-free software or firmware blobs. I like Debian's package guidelines, I like dpkg, I lik…

You don't mention say what you like specifically about Debian, most of what you wrote could be said for a lot of distributions.

So here is what I _don't_ like about Debian :-)

- I don't like Debian package tooling (dpkg, debootstrap, de build...). Actually I hate everything about the experience of Debian packaging. Every time I package for Debian, I end up with a messed up setup of chroots and have to make triple sure nothing leaked from my environment.

- Debian has a habit of repackaging everything at their own sauce, disregarding upstream philosophy. Debian packages will have their own microcosm of configuration directories, defaults, paths, etc. orthogonal to what a pristine installation look like.

- Debian has the annoying habit of default starting installed services. So you always have to dance around your configuration management to disable services, install them, configure them, then restart them.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#238

Post by dur-randir »

b112 wrote: post #14

You can still use sysvinit, I've already tested servers and desktop builds. From my build box: chroot $MOUNTPOINT/ /bin/bash -c "http_proxy=$aptproxy apt-get -y --purge --allow remove-essential install sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils systemd-sysv- systemd-" There is a weird depends you cannot get around without simultaneously removing and installing in parallel. A Debian bug highlighted the above, with a "-" for systemd…

I've been living with sysvinit up until Debian 11. Then it became unusable with lxc containers :(, so I had to bite the bullet. But for the basic system it indeed works.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#239

Post by starkparker »

Maybe a niche concern, but SDL2 is still in Trixie. The sdl2-compat layer (translating SDL2 APIs to SDL3) is in testing, where SDL2 also exists side-by-side with it and is intended to be used to test and verify that SDL2 apps that use it are actually compatible.

Night-and-day decision-making process compared to Fedora and Arch, which both replaced SDL2 with sdl2-compat, broke a bunch of SDL2 apps because sdl2-compat isn't actually SDL2-compatible yet, and sent everyone to yell at the SDL team about it.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#240

Post by dur-randir »

champtar wrote: post #182
b112 wrote: post #48

For those worrying about the NIC change with systemd, this comes from the release doc: https://www.debian.org/releases/trixie/release-notes/issues.... # example: udevadm test-builtin net_setup_link /sys/class/net/eno4 2>/dev/null ID_NET_LINK_FILE=/usr/lib/systemd/network/99-default.link ID_NET_LINK_FILE_DROPINS= ID_NET_NAME=eno4 Here's a one-liner, excluding a bond interface and lo. Gives a nice list of pre and post…

Hopefully the last breaking change. enoX should always stay stable, as it's the BIOS (in some ACPI table) telling that this device/port has this ID. ensX means the NIC in PCIe slot X, but in your PCIe tree you can have PCIe bridges, so technically you could have multiple NIC in the same slot (what the BIOS declare as a slot), so there was a lot of breaking NIC naming changes over the years in systemd to figure out th…

>Hopefully the last breaking change.

Every year's cope with systemd.

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