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Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

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Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#231

Post by ktallett »

frogperson wrote: post #218
austhrow743 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Punishing urban intellectuals for being urban intellectuals appears to be a common theme in a lot of right wing American messaging and the Republican Party won the popular vote. You can’t put this on a few. It’s the genuine desire of the American voter.

[flagged]

Please provide the proof to back this up. Like I wasn't willing to believe Trump without proof when he stated the previous election was stolen, I won't become a hypocrite and just believe it on Trump's win.

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#232

Post by ktallett »

eptcyka wrote: post #208
wisty wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They think urban intellectuals have a fair bit of power. They also think they are not always correct, not always unbiased, and possibly not always honest; and the bias tends to be towards either things that benefit the urban elite, or "luxury beliefs" that have disproportionate costs on other people.

Are you talking about math PhDs? What power do they have, politically?

I imagine many go on to be analysts of markets

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#233

Post by FirmwareBurner »

luckylion wrote: post #129
delusional wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you on about? I live in Europe. We don't terminate all contact to random universities because they said something the führer didn't like. If you truly believe that the whole world is "just as bad" as this, then you are unimaginably far to the right.

I wouldn't say it's "just as bad", but I also couldn't imagine a big university publicly and strongly going against the federal government in Germany on "culture war" issues. If you're fully aligned, there's no telling what would happen if you weren't, and you can't use "nothing happens" as evidence that nothing would happen - you're always allowed to share the opinions of whoever funds you. If Germany got a right-wi…

Thank you for the voice or reason.

It's silly to say that EU is better jut because people don't see the government interfere with universities in the EU, when EU universities would never go against the central government to begin with, because that's where all their money comes from. Why would you bite the hand that feeds you?

Meanwhile universities like Harvard have so much private money they can publicly tell Trump to shove it. EU universities don't have this privilege so they exercise a degree of self censorship based on how the government tells them to dance.

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#234

Post by [deleted] »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #124
linguae wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. For decades our political and cultural leadership took actions that benefitted themselves and other beneficiaries (e.g., property owners in coastal metro areas, tech and finance workers, etc.), but life has gotten harder for the poor and the middle class. The hollowing out of middle America and the dramatic rise in costs of the three H’s (health care, higher education, and housing) has been painful for many…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#235

Post by breppp »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #94
breppp wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't get to this because in Germany such a demonstration would be dispersed far earlier, not to mention the nazi symbolism displayed in UCLA

In any case, penalties would apply to the perpetrators themselves, as individuals. I've never heard of a case where the institution itself would suffer from a significant funding cut, to say nothing of a very sudden funding collapse.

That could be the case, but free speech is much more sacred in the United States than in Germany.

For example the anti-swastika or anti-cult laws, which I am not against, it's just a different approach to something like this happening

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#236

Post by A_D_E_P_T »

breppp wrote: post #235
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In any case, penalties would apply to the perpetrators themselves, as individuals. I've never heard of a case where the institution itself would suffer from a significant funding cut, to say nothing of a very sudden funding collapse.

That could be the case, but free speech is much more sacred in the United States than in Germany. For example the anti-swastika or anti-cult laws, which I am not against, it's just a different approach to something like this happening

> but free speech is much more sacred in the United States than in Germany.

In the abstract. In actual practice, it's not clear, and you could even build quite a strong case for the opposite view. "Cancellation" over mere words has been commonplace for over ten years, and is much more common to the US than to Europe. And as for laws... What just happened to Tao and UCLA has, to the best of my knowledge, never taken place in Europe in recent decades.

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#238

Post by Fraterkes »

davrosthedalek wrote: post #137
defrost wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a strongly divisive issue. A number of the protestors on campus were Jewish and upset with the behaviour of factions in Israel. From my reading of material across several countries and various points of view a lot of death threats were thrown about at a great many people spanning all sides of the dispute.

My point is this: I do think that some universities gave the protestors way too much leeway. It clearly created a hostile work environment for some - Jewish, and I grant you also Muslim students. The universities responsibility is to keep that in check, and some failed badly. Some did better. I also want to add my own observation, which might be biased: There was a clear, sizeable fraction of the protests that was be…

In your opinion, should any university that punishes this alleged celebration of Hamas also crack down on any group or movement that is openly sympathetic towards Netanyahu / far-right factions in Israel? Just trying to figure out what consistent policy we’re meant to follow here.
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