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‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

latimes.com

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Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#231

Post by lern_too_spel »

anonfordays wrote: post #145
wds wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I am aware of the Nakba, and how Palestinians fight to keep their land and lose.

Has there ever been another group of people that have lost so many existential wars in a row but still demand they keep their land?

How do you define this group of people? Most Palestinians have more of the blood of Abraham than the European Jews who displaced them. The idea that the Jews fled Palestine after the Romans conquered it is a myth that can be verified by genetic testing. Many stayed and Hellenized and then converted to Christianity and then converted to Islam. Now these people won't do the rational thing and "convert" back to Judaism to continue to stay in that land because of Pascal's wager and lack of education to see through it. For that, they have their land taken, are excluded from participating in the democracy that governs the country they live in, are starved, and are dehumanized.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#233

Post by greenpizza13 »

sjapkee wrote: post #193
OutOfHere wrote: post #57

The game theory, as per recent events, is as follows: 1. Hamas doesn't accept a two-state solution. 2. Israel is therefore forced into implementing a one-state solution.

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Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#234

Post by nashashmi »

pif wrote: post #133
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being upset at what you believe to be terrorism is, thankfully, not a valid justification for ethnic cleansing and genocide, either.

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This is what Israel has been willing to face, from their continuous settlement expansions, to occupation of resources, to negligence of international law.

Israel believes in (winning) conflicts. For as long as they have power and illusion of victory, they will brazenly ignore human suffering and wage war against anyone who stands in their way, and whatever fallout happens is what they secretly want for justification of their belligerence.

Today a man who spotlighted settlement violence and behavior was killed by the same. That is terrorism. And Israel has been waging through settlers as their proxies.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#235

Post by Mordisquitos »

OutOfHere wrote: post #132
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like israel is the one rejecting 2-state solutions* * - 2-state means 2 co-equal states, with equal people, and equal rights (including the equal right to be safe from the other)

It is essential to pay attention to the timeline of events, to not distort the sequence and progression of events. First Hamas rejected the two-state solution. Israel has later, in effect, accepted their rejection.

Your argument is subtly biased in that you equivocating two different levels of entities: one of them is a political/militant/terrorist organisation and another is a state.

If we're dealing with the first level we should compare Hamas and Likud (+coalition); if we're dealing with the second level, we should compare Palestine and Israel. Elevating Hamas to represent the entirety of Palestine in the conflict is twisting the logic.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#236

Post by ckemere »

Balgair wrote: post #206
alkyon wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the moment, the two sides only agree on wishing the other dead. So even in the ideal world it is a very remote possibility.

I also think we passed the window for a two state solution. Having two ethno-nationalist states next to each other is bad. Giving them a very complicated border is worse. Having them hate each other with centuries of history and territory claims is even worse still. Then giving them both, let alone one, access to the global arms market is asking for never ending wars of annihilation. If you could design a situation t…

It is unclear to me that Palestinians represent an “ethnonationalist” block. My understanding is that the definition of “Jewish” for the purposes of immigration to Israel is a somewhat precise combination of genealogical or religious criteria. But I don’t know of an equivalent definition for Palestinian. Can someone educate me on this? In the absence of such a definition, it seems that the primary conflict is whether Palestine should be specifically designated as a home for all “Jews” or merely as a home for the people that currently live there.

Again - I’d love further education about legal definitions.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#237

Post by falcor84 »

sjapkee wrote: post #183
js8 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is two-state solution possible? Just look at the map of the territories under palestinian control, they're bantustans. Israel/Palestine is factually one state, which simply doesn't accept half of its population as citizens. You could also say that "two-state solution" has been tried in 1948, but (for whatever reasons) didn't work out. So support for 2-state is just a form of delaying the inevitable. I am now firm bel…

[flagged]

You reminded me of this interview with Harlan Ellison that was making the rounds a while ago [0]. I think there's some kernel of truth there. I've heard a lot of people from both sides say that they prefer to die than to leave the land. So following up on Harlan's proposal, I would be in favour of the international community owning up to the situation and offering full asylum and permanent resettlement with a short-term path to citizenship to every single person living in Israel & Palestine who prefers to live than to stay there, and then just letting those who prefer to stay and kill each other to do so, until (hopefully) they sort out their differences and decide to declare peace and join the international community.

[0] https://youtu.be/P6gtHQGbXmM

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#238

Post by christkv »

swat535 wrote: post #205

Can someone living in Israel help me understand what is going on right now? What does the political climate look like in Israel? Do majority of people support what is happening, if so why? if not, how is the government executing this? Further, has this had any impact on the overall relationship between Jewish people worldwide and those residing in Israel? if so, how? I know that the media is all over the place and it…

I mean you cloud just browse Israeli newspapers online. Examples like https://www.haaretz.com/ and https://www.jpost.com/ both in English.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#239

Post by morkalork »

forinti wrote: post #165

Once Gaza and the West Bank are taken care of, will Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria be next? Israel very much depends on being the dominant power in the region. If they lose US support, things could get ugly indeed. And they are losing support rapidly now.

Have they not taken a bite of Syria - sorry, "established a buffer zone" - recently?

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#240

Post by matteoraso »

forinti wrote: post #165

Once Gaza and the West Bank are taken care of, will Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria be next? Israel very much depends on being the dominant power in the region. If they lose US support, things could get ugly indeed. And they are losing support rapidly now.

They've already attacked Syria and Lebanon multiple times already. There's no doubt that they're already planning for new wars once this one is over.
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